The Labour Government

hilts said:
I'm not sure why if you believe the world will not save the planet as is for its own benefit that we should therefore save ourselves from trying.
Surely we deserve bad things for destroying others futures.
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The effects of climate change will play out differently in different parts of the world.
Countries and blocs will always behave according to their own interests. The UK could sink beneath the waves tomorrow and it wouldn’t make a blind bit of difference to the planet’s climate, it really wouldn’t. There’s been no real debate on the UK’s approach, just a parade of mediocre politicians of different political shades grandstanding for some fucking reason I don’t quite understand and any dissent has been crushed. All this “denier” bollocks to silence any criticism. Climate change is real, man-made climate change is real, but our approach to energy is extremely stupid. We have practically zero real influence in the World and no one that matters will follow. Futile gestures may feel good, but are of no value. Impoverishing ourselves for >0.9% is just silly.
The Chinese, Indians,Yanks, Russians, in fact most of the world only pay lip service to decarbonisation. Many others see as means of economic reset and redistribution of wealth from the Old World. India will get there 30 years later than us …sure they will :) After all, we can trust them implicitly- can’t we ?
“We” are not destroying anyone’s futures - just our own.
 
I would be the first to applaud Starmer efforts, and it looks to be a positive meeting, but with a character like Trump it’s just as likely the next one won’t go well and that won’t be Starmer fault either.

It’s like any interaction with a bully, hard to know what will appease him or cause him to blow up. Hence there is so much uncertainty for Europe and the World moving forward.
 
hilts said:
Nothing against Starmer in this case apart from the toe curling embarrassing letter from the King part.

Anyone sucking up to that **** annoys me:-)
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I think everyone would agree with that - but then you're dealing with a narcissistic baby man who could cost the country tens of billions if he starts a trade war, or much more if he sides with Putin over Ukraine.

For a cheap photo op, a few buttery phrases, and a nice meal at the Palace, it'll hopefully turn out to be a great deal.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Starmer did just fine, he did what was needed to get the best deal for the UK. He called out the lies where necessary and reiterated what Ukraine , the UK and the EU want from the US. Now let's hope the meeting with Zelensky goes OK.
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You can tell Tories and Reform are absolutely gutted by how well Starmer played it and the praise he was getting.
 
RegisteredToSeePhotos said:
The logical conclusion of this is that if Trump, despite this visit, still fundamentally presses ahead with stopping funding for Ukraine, then Starmer will simply accept that and everyone praising him today will have been praising him for achieving what exactly?
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The reality is that a sane UK PM knows the limits of his/her power. I suspect a hostile USA will drive the UK into the EU camp, but we cannot stand alone. I imagine Starmer hopes he can moderate Trump's position. That may be a fantasy, as the man is unstable and unreliable. Indeed, he makes Adolf seem relatively rational by comparison.

I don't envy Starmer's task, but I can't see anyone around who would handle this better. (I don't see crawling up Trump's arse as 'better'.)
 
Palerider said:
Starmer has done really well in those negotiations. His job is to get the best deal for the UK not to sit on top of Mount outrage and sulk. We need to live in the real world, I think Starmer does.
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I think he did well, although Trump chose to go easy on Starmer, big up the UK and attack the EU instead. I think Starmer is being manoeuvred into a choice between the EU and Trumps USA using a Trade Deal as leverage.
These are not negotiations merely preliminary skirmishes. With Trump 2.0 ignore the optics and watch his deeds. He’s a CEO, not a politician and behaves exactly like the ruthless businessman that he is. Starmer is actually the personification of everything he despises. It is going to be a long and difficult road for the PM but he held his end up well, even if he looked a little shellshocked. This is just the beginning. It’ll be like going into a fucking bear pit.
 
Rory Bluelow said:
The effects of ... will play out differently in different parts of the world.
Countries and blocs will always behave according to their own interests. The UK could sink beneath the waves tomorrow and it wouldn’t make a blind bit of difference to the planet’s ...., it really wouldn’t. There’s been no real debate on the UK’s approach, just a parade of mediocre politicians of different political shades grandstanding for some fucking reason I don’t quite understand and any dissent has been crushed. All this “denier” bollocks to silence any criticism. ... is real, man-made .... is real, but our approach to energy is extremely stupid. We have practically zero real influence in the World and no one that matters will follow. Futile gestures may feel good, but are of no value. Impoverishing ourselves for >0.9% is just silly.
The Chinese, Indians,Yanks, Russians, in fact most of the world only pay lip service to decarbonisation. Many others see as means of economic reset and redistribution of wealth from the Old World. India will get there 30 years later than us …sure they will :) After all, we can trust them implicitly- can’t we ?
“We” are not destroying anyone’s futures - just our own.
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As edited by Trump
 
metalblue said:
Thatcher had principles. You may have thought they stank.
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She was racist, sexist and homophobic. Didn't just butter up cruel foreign leaders, but actively supported them.

If we're to suggest that being principled is good, even when those "principles" are vile, then we're heading towards Godwin's law territory.
 
bluenova said:
I think everyone would agree with that - but then you're dealing with a narcissistic baby man who could cost the country tens of billions if he starts a trade war, or much more if he sides with Putin over Ukraine.

For a cheap photo op, a few buttery phrases, and a nice meal at the Palace, it'll hopefully turn out to be a great deal.
Click to expand...
If the “deal” is a Trade deal with the USA, it will be impossible if we align with EU standards etc which has been a clear strategy of Starmer so far.
The takeaways from the presser for me were the “offer” of a Trade Deal, extreme anti-EU rhetoric and a renegotiation of the Chagos deal at our expense.
 
Rory Bluelow said:
If the “deal” is a Trade deal with the USA, it will be impossible if we align with EU standards etc which has been a clear strategy of Starmer so far.
The takeaways from the presser for me were the “offer” of a Trade Deal, extreme anti-EU rhetoric and a renegotiation of the Chagos deal at our expense.
Click to expand...

I'd be surprised if we end up with any kind of huge trade deal - they usually take years to agree.

Chagos is ultimately going to be a pittance across 100+ years, even if it turns out the total is at the higher end of the figures quoted. Avoiding tariffs, and getting Trump a step closer to supporting Ukraine over Putin, is something that could save us tens of billions in just a few years.
 
Rory Bluelow said:
The effects of climate change will play out differently in different parts of the world.
Countries and blocs will always behave according to their own interests. The UK could sink beneath the waves tomorrow and it wouldn’t make a blind bit of difference to the planet’s climate, it really wouldn’t. There’s been no real debate on the UK’s approach, just a parade of mediocre politicians of different political shades grandstanding for some fucking reason I don’t quite understand and any dissent has been crushed. All this “denier” bollocks to silence any criticism. Climate change is real, man-made climate change is real, but our approach to energy is extremely stupid. We have practically zero real influence in the World and no one that matters will follow. Futile gestures may feel good, but are of no value. Impoverishing ourselves for >0.9% is just silly.
The Chinese, Indians,Yanks, Russians, in fact most of the world only pay lip service to decarbonisation. Many others see as means of economic reset and redistribution of wealth from the Old World. India will get there 30 years later than us …sure they will :) After all, we can trust them implicitly- can’t we ?
“We” are not destroying anyone’s futures - just our own.
Click to expand...
Are you a scientist?
 
bluenova said:
I'd be surprised if we end up with any kind of huge trade deal - they usually take years to agree.

Chagos is ultimately going to be a pittance across 100+ years, even if it turns out the total is at the higher end of the figures quoted. Avoiding tariffs, and getting Trump a step closer to supporting Ukraine over Putin, is something that could save us tens of billions in just a few years.
Click to expand...
I agree with all that. Trump mentioned 140 years on Chagos so renegotiation is on the table. It will be interesting to see how it develops. Common tactic to reopen or frustrate negotiation is to throw a “spoiler” in. Looks like Trump has gone for the timescale of the lease.
I think the trade deal (if it materialises) will be simply around terms of trade and reciprocal tariffs.
 
bluenova said:
She was racist, sexist and homophobic. Didn't just butter up cruel foreign leaders, but actively supported them.

If we're to suggest that being principled is good, even when those "principles" are vile, then we're heading towards Godwin's law territory.
Click to expand...
You managed to squeeze in just about every cliche in the book in there.

Congrats.
 
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