The Labour Government

Rory Bluelow said:
Oh dear.
Real life is much more nuanced than good guys v bad guys.
Labours model was nationalised power burns nationalised coal transported by a nationalised railways. They banned using gas for power generation because they were in thrall to the miners union. It was becoming clear that coal was problematic (acid rain in Scandinavia) but the model was entrenched for political reasons, even though gas was abundant, cheaper, faster to construct, more energy efficient and environmentally superior.
We were about build to 4 coal fired 850MW units, they were fully consented and construction offices and cabins were on Site.
Privatisation stopped this nonsense and the dash for gas followed in the early 90’s - massively reducing costs and carbon emissions. Politics interfered, first under Major who made sure our Generators were shrunk in size for “competition” reasons and then Blair removed the Government’s “Golden Share” (put in place by Thatcher to protect UK ownership) which enabled our weakened Companies to be gobbled up into foreign ownership (with the only exception being British Gas/Centrica). Privatisation was right and hugely beneficial. Politicians fucked it up and now Miliband is gleefully digging its grave - he will condemn the Country to a bleak future of power outages and rationing, fuel poverty, almost total deindustrialisation, leading to inability to fund defence, borders, health and welfare. All for less than 0.9% of global emissions ! Mad.

Water is a natural monopoly and privatisation was a mistake- a better answer would have been a “thin client” model combined with market expertise.
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I can but quote how our power stations were to be fitted for desulphurisation of flue gases. Our Tory MP was very much in favour, until his trip to apartheid South Africa paid for by their coal corporation and he came back saying we should just use low-sulphur coal from South Africa.
 
Vic said:
I can but quote how our power stations were to be fitted for desulphurisation of flue gases. Our Tory MP was very much in favour, until his trip to apartheid South Africa paid for by their coal corporation and he came back saying we should just use low-sulphur coal from South Africa.
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A coincidence no doubt:-)
 
Rory Bluelow said:
A different China than yours Bob. They are a global leader in renewable energy because they use cheap coal fired electricity to make solar panels, electric cars etc and flog em to the gullible, but rich, dreamers in the West.
2060 will never happen - too far in the future - the promises mean nowt. No means of enforcement and they have the military might to do their own thing. They’ve brutally annexed Tibet and persecute minorities in their own Country. They are not good guys. I’m sure they be delighted to know that you’ve swallowed their narrative. I think India are supposedly carbon neutral by 2080. That won’t happen either.
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Does using coal fired electricity to make solar panels and electric cars, not mean they can then use their solar panel energy to make *checks notes* more solar panels and electric cars in the future?

I note that last year China reduced its share of coal generated electricity to 55% vs 45% of renewable produced electricity. Step in the right direction and all that.
 
BobKowalski said:
Does using coal fired electricity to make solar panels and electric cars, not mean they can then use their solar panel energy to make *checks notes* more solar panels and electric cars in the future?

I note that last year China reduced its share of coal generated electricity to 55% vs 45% of renewable produced electricity. Step in the right direction and all that.
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You classing nuclear as renewable?
 
ganganvince said:
You classing nuclear as renewable?
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Good point. Nuclear can’t be renewable as they use a finite fuel source. It can be classed as clean given the lack of carbon footprint, but you also have the waste issue - or melting down through the Earth’s core.

Maybe we should stick to coal :)
 
Rory Bluelow said:
He’s a CEO. They’re a million miles away from the art of politics. I’m sure many of us have seen people like that up close - see everything as a “creative deal to be done”, utterly driven and energetic, totally ruthless, results oriented, incredibly difficult to deal with.
I felt for Zelenskyy but he’s bitten the hand that feeds him. I suspect some form of deal will get done when everyone’s cooled off. It was awful spectacle to watch.
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Narcissism Trumps (pardon the pun) being a CEO every day of the week
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Christ, what a shameful, selfish "I'm alright Jack" attitude to have.

Yu may well be okay and I'm happy for you but let me tell you there are many many people out there who are not so fortunate. Well fuck 'em, If they can't look after themselves them they're just a drain on society and we probably don't need 'em eh?
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I'm the least selfish 'I'm alright Jack' person you could ever meet. I personally don't think there is enough altruism in the world today.

As a pensioner, I get royally pissed off at times with younger people calling me a scrounger and a drain on society. I worked my whole life to pay for their free education and healthcare while they were growing up, at the same time supporting our retired people, and not for one second did I resent paying for that.

If that makes me selfish in your mind, then so be it, but you made an assertion that most older people are not capable of understanding the modern world. They are. I don't doubt some are confused, but suggesting my attitude is 'Fuck Em' is as wide of the mark as it gets.

I gave up work for a number of years to care for my mother. My financial situation descended into an abyss whereby I could have lost my house, and everything I had worked for.

I just about managed to keep things together on the meagre offerings paid by the government.

I feel no shame in keeping my mother out of a nursing home. It gave me great satisfaction that I was there for her as much as she was when I was a child, and I was pleased I did it after she had passed on.

It was an altruistic attitude I had I was fully aware of that could have resulted in a financial loss for me I would never be able to recover from, but I went with it all the same.
 
BobKowalski said:
Does using coal fired electricity to make solar panels and electric cars, not mean they can then use their solar panel energy to make *checks notes* more solar panels and electric cars in the future?

I note that last year China reduced its share of coal generated electricity to 55% vs 45% of renewable produced electricity. Step in the right direction and all that.
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Their coal consumption keeps rising. I’m glad you have such faith in the Chinese Communist Party - fine fellows all !
 
Vic said:
I can but quote how our power stations were to be fitted for desulphurisation of flue gases. Our Tory MP was very much in favour, until his trip to apartheid South Africa paid for by their coal corporation and he came back saying we should just use low-sulphur coal from South Africa.
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Vic - FGD was fitted to our coalers. Your Tory mustn’t have had much influence.
Plus - If you’re going burn coal - low sulphur coal is preferred.
 
Rory Bluelow said:
Totally agree. Practical steps and continuing technological development is the way forward. To do the latter, you need industry (not Government or University Research) and industry needs reliable and cheap energy.
It shouldn’t be difficult to join the dots !
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Industry very often relies on university and government research. Many startups are born through research projects and continued collaboration between industry and universities.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Inflation 3%, rail tickets up 4.6%?
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It was set at July 2024 RPI (3.6%) plus 1%-pt.

Only the second time since 2013 that it’s been set at RPI-plus.

Although I suppose they need to money to fund the train driver pay rise that Louise Haigh signed off (the one where she signed off without telling anybody else in cabinet).
 
Brewster's millions said:
It was set at July 2024 RPI (3.6%) plus 1%-pt.

Only the second time since 2013 that it’s been set at RPI-plus.

Although I suppose they need to money to fund the train driver pay rise that Louise Haigh signed off (the one where she signed off without telling anybody else in cabinet).
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She wanted to call them but someone had stolen her phone allegedly ;-)
 
It would appear that like Johnson before him our Prime Minister has become distracted by "Events". Johnson had Brexit, Covid and Ukraine to occupy him and as we know, he fatally took his eye off the ball on almost everything else, most domestic policy turned to shit. Now Starmer also has Ukraine and like Johnson, Starmer appears to be happier playing the role of international statesman than dealing with our domestic issues . I do hope he will not make the same mistake as Johnson but the signs aren't good. UK news and political discourse is nothing but Ukraine, even the BlueMoon Labour Party thread has dried up. It is worth comparing this to Trump and the US where his domestic policy agenda and newsfeed remains at full throttle.
It is not as if there is nothing else going on , the economy continues to nosedive, it is only four weeks until we feel the full force of Reeves' negative budget, small boats crisis is getting worse etc etc
I am not suggesting Ukraine does not deserve his full attention but he needs his front bench to step up and start driving / explaining the domestic agenda.
Starmer has handled himself reasonably well on Ukraine thus far ( though may turn out to be a car crash for him ) but
it feels like Ukraine will be used to re-shape policy to cover previous failures e.g. Increased defence spending will allow Reeves the cover for more tax rises to cover for the coming fact that she will not receive the taxes she expected she would receive from her budget. Defence spending will be the new Black Hole. Watch this space.
 
Hertzblue said:
It would appear that like Johnson before him our Prime Minister has become distracted by "Events". Johnson had Brexit, Covid and Ukraine to occupy him and as we know, he fatally took his eye off the ball on almost everything else, most domestic policy turned to shit. Now Starmer also has Ukraine and like Johnson, Starmer appears to be happier playing the role of international statesman than dealing with our domestic issues . I do hope he will not make the same mistake as Johnson but the signs aren't good. UK news and political discourse is nothing but Ukraine, even the BlueMoon Labour Party thread has dried up. It is worth comparing this to Trump and the US where his domestic policy agenda and newsfeed remains at full throttle.
It is not as if there is nothing else going on , the economy continues to nosedive, it is only four weeks until we feel the full force of Reeves' negative budget, small boats crisis is getting worse etc etc
I am not suggesting Ukraine does not deserve his full attention but he needs his front bench to step up and start driving / explaining the domestic agenda.
Starmer has handled himself reasonably well on Ukraine thus far ( though may turn out to be a car crash for him ) but
it feels like Ukraine will be used to re-shape policy to cover previous failures e.g. Increased defence spending will allow Reeves the cover for more tax rises to cover for the coming fact that she will not receive the taxes she expected she would receive from her budget. Defence spending will be the new Black Hole. Watch this space.
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What is the main driver of inflation? If it's still energy costs then Ukraine is very much at the centre of this. The euro fannies that depended on nordstream are now buying their gas elsewhere and it's pushed the price up - supply/demand etc.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
What is the main driver of inflation? If it's still energy costs then Ukraine is very much at the centre of this. The euro fannies that depended on nordstream are now buying their gas elsewhere and it's pushed the price up - supply/demand etc.
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Wholesale gas prices were the driver back in 2022 but they have dropped back. According to the BOE it's our own Carbon taxes that are now doing more to push inflation now. If Starmer wanted to reduce energy prices he could just sack Miliband rather than solve the Ukraine crisis.
 
Hertzblue said:
Wholesale gas prices were the driver back in 2022 but they have dropped back. According to the BOE it's our own Carbon taxes that are now doing more to push inflation now. If Starmer wanted to reduce energy prices he could just sack Miliband rather than solve the Ukraine crisis.
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It would be nice to have actual grown up politicians that could find a sensible position in-between greta thunberg and 'drill baby drill'.
 
I remember a broadcast the other year where a couple of tory ministers stated, " too many people are carrying too much money in their bank accounts, due to covid. They would be redressing this by recouping it with an increase in energy prices. Firstly, what has private companies got to do with the government. Secondly it's a move to disaster regarding inflation. No surprise it's gone tits up.
 
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