Russian invasion of Ukraine

Keeper! said:
It not just defence though is it, we basically told our neighbours to go forth and multiply.

Never since the second world war has the UK and the European mainland needed to stick together and take the initiative.

American is clearly going to be far more insular and far more unpredictable under Trump, it's the perfect opportunity for Europe to rise as a genuine combined super power for the benefit of Europe and to do that Russia must not be allowed to recover from their present state, the 3 year attack on Ukraine has hammered their economy, Military, Moral and influence, yet Trump wants to give Russia and Putin a get out of jail card, a quite unbelievable and scary situation.

Trump talks of Ukraine not having a strong hand of cards, yet Russia has almost folded, why the *uck would the USA and Trump want to let them off the hook?
Click to expand...
It is just defence?

If Europe could manage without the UK, it would in a heart beat and would drop the UK as soon as defence wasn't an issue.

---------------------

You're looking at this pre the last US election when the rules and politics were different. Respect and diplomacy actually represented something.

You must have witnessed Trump acting like a schoolboy bully and then Vance bravely stepping in and kicking the shit out of the kid once he was on the floor. If that didn't indicate that to you, then I don't really know what will. It was shameful and must have been hugely embarrassing for many Americans, but their feelings mean absolutely nothing to this lot.

Things are going to change, Russia is now the 'friend' and not the 'enemy'......deals can be done, arrangements can be made..........everyone's a winner.
 
Jimmieblue said:
I agree with all that, absolutely. Simply put Putin is like a wounded animal, wants back what he thinks belongs to him. Very, very difficult to deal with. Dangerous etc etc but … haven’t the other wars taught us anything? We once met a soldier, in Cyprus. After the Iraq war. Someone had lent him a Villa to recuperate. He had PTSD, I’ve never forgotten how it affected him. Life ruined really. These people who are eager to go to war now really annoy me, it’s a terrible thing. Get round a table, it really is the only way. I don’t want any soldiers fighting a war anymore.
Click to expand...
You keep saying this.

Who are these people that want to go to war?

People don't want to go to war, but rather they want war to stop. However, they do realize that the security of Ukraine and Europe need to be dealt with.
 
Jimmieblue said:
Not saying that at all, it’s a whole lot of other things. My two aunts whose 18 year old boyfriends were killed in WW1, who never married and spent their lives as spinsters, all the other young men who’ve sloped off to war at other people’s bidding to come back ruined. War is terrible I don’t believe we are in danger.
Click to expand...
I had two aunts the same, engaged but lost both to the war. Never married.

War is terrible, but are you typing this from Ukraine, because I believe they have a different view.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
In all honesty I’d rather be allied with China than the US right now.
Click to expand...
That's a bit like getting out of the frying pan and into the fire!!!

China operates quietly and manipulatively on stealth and patience.........America as you would expect under Trump, is just a loudmouth.

Both equally as dangerous.
 
Jimmieblue said:
No, no that’s not what I want at all. He has to be stopped, somehow. The Ukrainians need to get back round the table. Maybe an election would sort it I don’t know how the whole country feels.
Click to expand...
You are Sergey Lavrov and I claim my £5....$9....€5.75....₽557!!

You mean an election where by a Putin puppet government is put into place?

There's one thing about you, you're full of good ideas.


In case you didn't watch the meeting the other day, the Ukrainians were around the table, but were booted out.
Perhaps you meant to say, it's Trump that needs to get back around the table, but to be honest, I don't see any value in that.
 
KS55 said:
The simplest solution is to kick US out of NATO. I-know, I know..
Click to expand...
If they are not going to support NATO and keep to their obligations, then why not?

If hypothetically, Putin was to invade Estonia or Latvia, does anybody think that Trump would support NATO and help?
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
This could turn ugly. Not saying it definitely will. Depends on how batshit crazy Trump and Vance get. If this insanity continues to grow then I can see civil disobedience taking quite a hold. Then who knows where it will end.

This is completely off the scale compared to his first term, as mental as that was.
Click to expand...
Don't you worry about it, it's all in hand.

Trump has his recently pardoned militia peeps 'sleeping' soundly, just waiting for the call to deal with any of that civil disobedience nonsense.
 
Jimmieblue said:
Not saying that at all, it’s a whole lot of other things. My two aunts whose 18 year old boyfriends were killed in WW1, who never married and spent their lives as spinsters, all the other young men who’ve sloped off to war at other people’s bidding to come back ruined. War is terrible I don’t believe we are in danger.
Click to expand...
I think you are naive.
 
Slipper One said:
It is just defence?

If Europe could manage without the UK, it would in a heart beat and would drop the UK as soon as defence wasn't an issue.

---------------------

You're looking at this pre the last US election when the rules and politics were different. Respect and diplomacy actually represented something.

You must have witnessed Trump acting like a schoolboy bully and then Vance bravely stepping in and kicking the shit out of the kid once he was on the floor. If that didn't indicate that to you, then I don't really know what will. It was shameful and must have been hugely embarrassing for many Americans, but their feelings mean absolutely nothing to this lot.

Things are going to change, Russia is now the 'friend' and not the 'enemy'......deals can be done, arrangements can be made..........everyone's a winner.
Click to expand...
I did witness the shocking scenes in the Oval Office and hence why Europe/UK can no longer trust the Trump administration and time for Europe to unite like never before and take care of Ukraine on it's own back and also bring in the help of Japan, Australia and Canada.

Europe/UK could come out of this considerably stronger as a global power and maybe we should be doing the deal with Ukraine for their mineral riches/Wheat.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
This could turn ugly. Not saying it definitely will. Depends on how batshit crazy Trump and Vance get. If this insanity continues to grow then I can see civil disobedience taking quite a hold. Then who knows where it will end.

This is completely off the scale compared to his first term, as mental as that was.
Click to expand...
Incredibly this lunatic changes his mind at the drop of a hat, if he senses his popularity at home is damaged he will change tact but alas the MAGA crowd simply are not interested in any problems outside the USA.

The only hope of dissent is the Dow Jones/Economy if that was to tank then it could well get very ugly.

Simply a wake up call for the UK and Europe to do the right thing and take things into their own hands.
 
Slipper One said:
That's a bit like getting out of the frying pan and into the fire!!!

China operates quietly and manipulatively on stealth and patience.........America as you would expect under Trump, is just a loudmouth.

Both equally as dangerous.
Click to expand...
I genuinely don't think China is a threat, they are smart, have enormous financial clout and supply most of the worlds goods, not sure they want to upset any of the major nations as it stands.

The only issue with China is Taiwan, only a matter of time that it will be taken back by China.
 
There’s a consensus to have boots in the ground now in Ukraine and the security guarantee will be that America has a direct financial interest in Ukraine’s territory which would deter having another go at its idea of Kyiv in 3 days. Can Ukraine and Europe trust the loonies in the White House on this one?

The next leap of faith is getting to the point where lunatics one (USA) bring in lunatics two (Russia) into the discussion and they have to engage with sensible people in Ukraine and Europe. We know Russia won’t accept boots on the ground in Ukraine and they have daft ideas about the Baltic states being stopped from buying modern NATO standard weapons. The unsavoury kicking that Trump gave to Zelensky on Friday in laying out what the options are now needs to happen to Russia. What cards does Russia have to play now they are skint, their army is fucked apart from going hiding behind its nuclear weapons?
 
Keeper! said:
I genuinely don't think China is a threat, they are smart, have enormous financial clout and supply most of the worlds goods, not sure they want to upset any of the major nations as it stands.

The only issue with China is Taiwan, only a matter of time that it will be taken back by China.
Click to expand...
They are not a threat in military or intimidation terms, but I do think they are a threat in the controlling way they are going about their business throughout the world.

Taiwan is an issue for them, but I don't think, even with America standing back and taking no part, that they want the bloodshed that would follow. Taiwan is very well equipped to impose severe casualties on Chinese forces, and as you say, they'll find a less hostile way eventually.
 
Slipper One said:
They are not a threat in military or intimidation terms, but I do think they are a threat in the controlling way they are going about their business throughout the world.

Taiwan is an issue for them, but I don't think, even with America standing back and taking no part, that they want the bloodshed that would follow. Taiwan is very well equipped to impose severe casualties on Chinese forces, and as you say, they'll find a less hostile way eventually.
Click to expand...

Quietly for them there is an opportunity here for China. Europe is coming to terms with the fact that a long term partner in the United States cannot be trusted and has become unpredictable in its foreign policy. Trump is threatening tariffs on Chinese and European products. Countries across the Euro zone are encountering stagnant economic conditions which for China means an opportunity to pull the EU towards its sphere of influence.
 
Keeper! said:
I did witness the shocking scenes in the Oval Office and hence why Europe/UK can no longer trust the Trump administration and time for Europe to unite like never before and take care of Ukraine on it's own back and also bring in the help of Japan, Australia and Canada.

Europe/UK could come out of this considerably stronger as a global power and maybe we should be doing the deal with Ukraine for their mineral riches/Wheat.
Click to expand...
Agreed, but I don't think Europe can do it in reality.

If all the countries would look at the greater benefit instead of their own self interests, then a strong Europe might succeed, but it's not really shown that it's capable so far.

Regardless, it needs to, because America as it stands needs to be distanced. They are no friend of Ukraine, Europe or the UK...........or Canada come to that.

Totally untrustworthy.
 
come to daddy ;}

GlB2O8IXAAAqanc
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top