President Trump

mackenzie said:
We have been over this before, so I will just say one thing; when a country/electorate is divided then it is imperative that each side is listened to by the other. Even if each side thinks the other is "thick, moronic" or "smug, elitest."
Somewhere in the middle is the truth, regardless of how each side feels about it.
Click to expand...
If we go somewhere in the middle between Trump and any presidential candidate in history the implication is that some of Trump’s policies or actions are better than the alternative. This is absolute bollocks because Trump is a deranged moron who is guided by the last person in the room with him, and those people who have his ear do not have the best (or any) interests of the US or its allies as their motivation. They are allied with Putin and any step in that direction is just wrong.
 
mackenzie said:
We have been over this before, so I will just say one thing; when a country/electorate is divided then it is imperative that each side is listened to by the other. Even if each side thinks the other is "thick, moronic" or "smug, elitest."
Somewhere in the middle is the truth, regardless of how each side feels about it.
Click to expand...
When a democratic country is divided among parties with different ideologies as to “how to” but agree that finding the best path to benefiting and protecting the citizenry, the economy, the resources and our friends/allies is a good thing, you are 100% right.

That’s why politics and policy is hard — it always about trade-offs and compromise with the hope that benefits are linearally-optimized for the most people possible at the lowest cost possible.

But that’s not the division that exists now, is it?

Now it’s between a tearing down of that common goal set to pursue a path of narrow benefit, especially for those who make the actual decisions, costs be damned. That’s what autocratic despotism is. That’s what the president wants. Specifically. It’s what he’s pursuing.

I don’t need to understand that side. It’s wrong. That maybe some people didn’t see that during Trump’s first term is upsetting but perhaps forgivable. And we voted him out.

But the SECOND time? No. I don’t need to understand. I don’t need to listen. There are no two views of what is true, no middle ground. None. We reject autocratic despotism on its face. We just defeat it or it defeats us. Just like cancer.
 
Last edited:
mackenzie said:
We have been over this before, so I will just say one thing; when a country/electorate is divided then it is imperative that each side is listened to by the other. Even if each side thinks the other is "thick, moronic" or "smug, elitest."
Somewhere in the middle is the truth, regardless of how each side feels about it.
Click to expand...
It's the world view, bro. Completely different world view leaving 0 room for compromise.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
When a democratic country is divided among parties with different ideologies as to “how to” but agree that finding the best path to benefiting and protecting the citizenry, the economy, the resources and our friends/allies is a good thing, you are 100% right.

That’s why politics and policy is hard — it always about trade-offs and compromise with the hope that benefits are linearally-optimized for the most people possible at the lowest cost possible.

But that’s not the division that exists now, is it?

Now it’s between a tearing down of that common goal set to pursue a path of narrow benefit, especially for those who make the actual decisions, costs be damned. That’s what autocratic despotism is. That’s what the president wants. Specifically. It’s what he’s pursuing.

I don’t need to understand that side. It’s wrong. That maybe some people didn’t see that during Trump’s first term is upsetting but perhaps forgivable. And we voted him out.

But the SECOND time? No. I don’t need to understand. I don’t need to listen. There are no two views of what is true, no middle ground. None. We reject autocratic despotism on its face. We just defeat it or it defeats us. Just like cancer.
Click to expand...
I hate Trump too. However, I don't hate the people who voted for him.

I agree...he and his ilk are a cancer.

I just don't think that actually listening and debating with the "floating" voter is something that should be ignored.
If you can't bring yourself to do that then fine. That's your perogative.
 
mackenzie said:
I hate Trump too. However, I don't hate the people who voted for him.

I agree...he and his ilk are a cancer.

I just don't think that actually listening and debating with the "floating" voter is something that should be ignored.
If you can't bring yourself to do that then fine. That's your perogative.
Click to expand...
Telling someone they are wrong is not hating them.

Those who voted for Trump are wrong if they thought he wouldn’t pursue authoritarian despotism, didn’t care if he pursued authoritarian despotism, didn’t know if he would pursue authoritarian despotism, don’t know what authoritarian despotism is, or actually wanted him to pursue authoritarian despotism.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Five kinds of wrong.

Until they say, “Shit, I was wrong”, you are in a one-way alley with an 18-wheeler bearing down on you. There’s no way out. There’s no escape. There’s no reasoning. There’s no debate. There’s no compromise.

Where precisely is the argument I’m supposed to listen to?
 
Last edited:
mackenzie said:
We have been over this before, so I will just say one thing; when a country/electorate is divided then it is imperative that each side is listened to by the other. Even if each side thinks the other is "thick, moronic" or "smug, elitest."
Somewhere in the middle is the truth, regardless of how each side feels about it.
Click to expand...
Incidentally, just as an aside, I don’t recall that I’ve never heard a single MAGA member say (publicly), “You know — we really should be listening to Democrats.”
 
mackenzie said:
We have been over this before, so I will just say one thing; when a country/electorate is divided then it is imperative that each side is listened to by the other. Even if each side thinks the other is "thick, moronic" or "smug, elitest."
Somewhere in the middle is the truth, regardless of how each side feels about it.
Click to expand...
So you're saying that in WWII Germany, German citizens really should have listed to the Nazis. The truth was in the middle.
 
I think like most Americans I have listened to Trump voters. After listening to them it became clear that they are bitter losers, marks, bigots, sheltered with a tenuous grasp on reality etc., and that was that. I can usually meet a reasonable conservative halfway but these aren't reasonable people. They're confused idiots at best.
 
Sound bites and social media and people are seeing what they want to see, someone to blame, it’s the gays, the trans, the immigrants, the left, the right etc. The liberals are as much to blame for getting Trump in office, many people are sick of the “woke” stuff but when you couple that with the daft religious nutters you can see how the right push the narrative, it’s the same with immigrants, I have American friends who voted for him and they’ve gone full MAGA immigrants, abortion cost of eggs, and they I’d consider sensible educated people so there really is no hope unless the economy suffers they’ve bought into the rhetoric on Fox News. Funnily enough they’ve gone very quiet recently.
 
mackenzie said:
Your country is a mess.
Ireland had a gay man of mixed race elected, the UK had an Asian man elected, has had 3 female PMs and now has a black woman as leader of the opposition.
Yet your country obsesses about race, gender etc etc etc.
And yet the States is supposed to be progressive.

Forgive me, but you need to look at yourselves here.
Click to expand...
America is America and has a history, culture and political prism that is separate and distinct from anywhere else in the world.

And, if you think America should look to the UK examples you posted, I’d suggest you should look at yourselves, because progressive for progressive’s stake is idiocy.
 
mackenzie said:
Thanks for guessing at what I think ;-)
Click to expand...
To be fair, we do know that people from Stoke live a very confused existence (are they Scouse, are they Brummie - very strange existence) - they've done well to merely stop shouting at the sun.

And in an attempt to not derail the thread, let's leave Liverpool well alone.

@FogBlueInSanFran , your assessing of UK cities is fair and accurate........... :-)
 
ChicagoBlue said:
America is America and has a history, culture and political prism that is separate and distinct from anywhere else in the world.

And, if you think America should look to the UK examples you posted, I’d suggest you should look at yourselves, because progressive for progressive’s stake is idiocy.
Click to expand...

It's a laughing stock at present.

Wants to annexe a Country just to the North , that has a health and care system, wants to annexe Greenland by force if necessary, wants to forcibly remove 2 million Palestinians, to build Golf Courses.
A Cuntry where the elected President is a partner of the most ruthless man of the planet.
I coached in the USA for a number of years. I saw the inequality and deprivation. I met many good people, I doubt if many of them could defend the present plight of a quickly descending autocratic shambles.
A Sociopathic leader never ends well.
 
asahartford1 said:
It's a laughing stock at present.

Wants to annexe a Country just to the North , that has a health and care system, wants to annexe Greenland by force if necessary, wants to forcibly remove 2 million Palestinians, to build Golf Courses.
A Cuntry where the elected President is a partner of the most ruthless man of the planet.
I coached in the USA for a number of years. I saw the inequality and deprivation. I met many good people, I doubt if many of them could defend the present plight of a quickly descending autocratic shambles.
A Sociopathic leader never ends well.
Click to expand...
Understand all of that, but America is not Trump and Trump is not America.

Yes, he is the President, but he is not America, and there is no defence of his current ATTEMPT to create an autocratic shambles.

One can only hope he is defeated by Congress and the Courts, and at the ballot box in 2 yrs time.
 
Last edited:
ChicagoBlue said:
Understand all if that, but America is not Trump and Trump is not America.

Yes, he is the President, but he is not America, and there is no defence of his current ATTEMPT to create an autocratic shambles.

One can only hope he is defeated by Congress and the Courts, and at the ballot box in 2 yrs time.
Click to expand...
What happens if it isn’t, I’d not put it past his mate Vlad helping with those mid terms and beyond. When will Americans take it into their own hands, demonstrations etc?
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Understand all if that, but America is not Trump and Trump is not America.

Yes, he is the President, but he is not America, and there is no defence of his current ATTEMPT to create an autocratic shambles.

One can only hope he is defeated by Congress and the Courts, and at the ballot box in 2 yrs time.
Click to expand...
At the moment mate, from a world perspective, Shitgibbon IS America
 
Blue Maverick said:
What happens if it isn’t, I’d not put it past his mate Vlad helping with those mid terms and beyond. When will Americans take it into their own hands, demonstrations etc?
Click to expand...

That they're stopping the authorities from countering Russian cyber attacks tells you all you need to know.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top