Politicians are incompetent... aren't they?

BigJoe#1 said:
If you take time to watch the clip, a bit lengthy I know, but it shows that ministers seem go to the press badly briefed with only specific message to deliver but more importantly without the ability to answer the most basic of questions on the subject they are there to talk about.

Sheep like @BlueHammer85 and others on here who don't have the ability to think outside the box, or to question and challenge what they are told by their leader is a concern. They are not prepared to accept any kind of criticism of Starmer and of the Labour party generally.... worrying

My criticism is balanced and definitely aimed at both major parties (something that appears to be beyond the comprehension of some on here) You really do not have to be ALL left or ALL right. Labour are particularly bad right now simply because they are not even Tory lite.... they are more Tory than the Tories themselves - which makes the support for Labour on here even more baffling.

So.... can I suggest you just watch and study the video or.... just ignore it?
Click to expand...
To be honest, I don’t really care what you think. We’ve spent time conversing and there’s little point in doing so any more.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Sheep like @BlueHammer85 and others on here who don't have the ability to think outside the box, or to question and challenge what they are told by their leader is a concern. They are not prepared to accept any kind of criticism of Starmer and of the Labour party generally.... worrying
Click to expand...
Calling other people sheep tells me all I need to know about you.
 
DelToro said:
Politicians have been acting like politicians for over 2000 years all over the world and they tend to be reflections of the people they represent.

The UK is no different but I do accept that the experiences of WW1 and WW2 did generate a typically less partisan political environment.

Populists have also been around for 2000+ years, promising easy answers to difficult questions and identifying enemies to blame for everyone else’s misfortune.
Click to expand...

True, although Churchill did say in 1945 that if Labour were elected they would form their own Gestapo, so it didn’t take long for partisan hyperbole to creep back in :)
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Do you think Reform could be the answer ?
Click to expand...
Given the selection of idealists we have (yes I know Reform fit here nicely) no..... but having tried all the others and witnessed what they do - spending half the time and money undoing what the others have done during their time in office - I am not convinced they could be any worse.

But NO I don't think they would be the answer. The best solution for the UK (IMO) is to have proportional representation where everyone's vote counts. But I still come back to the fact that the main protagonists have tried and failed time after time, so what harm would a change do?
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Given the selection of idealists we have (yes I know Reform fit here nicely) no..... but having tried all the others and witnessed what they do - spending half the time and money undoing what the others have done during their time in office - I am not convinced they could be any worse.

But NO I don't think they would be the answer. The best solution for the UK (IMO) is to have proportional representation where everyone's vote counts. But I still come back to the fact that the main protagonists have tried and failed time after time, so what harm would a change do?
Click to expand...

So Labour, Tories and Reform are not the answer - so what good will proportional votes do ?
 
BlueHammer85 said:
So Labour, Tories and Reform are not the answer - so what good will proportional votes do ?
Click to expand...
It would reflect the wishes of the nation and avoid what we have now which is a huge majority government when they barely represent 35% of the voting public.

Do you think what we have now is truly democratic and healthy?

More importantly everyone will believe their votes have counted.
 
Last edited:
BigJoe#1 said:
It would reflect the wishes of the nation and avoid what we have now which is a huge majority government when they barely represent 35% of the voting public.

Do you think what we have now is truly democratic and healthy?
Click to expand...

That still doesn’t relate to your opening post - proportional voting would have still resulted in Labour and Tory victories in recent decades - so you’d still moan they’re incompetent and not good enough anyway.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
That still doesn’t relate to your opening post - proportional voting would have still resulted in Labour and Tory victories in recent decades - so you’d still moan they’re incompetent and not good enough anyway.
Click to expand...
Clearly you don't understand the first past the post voting system v proportional representation. Is it right in your opinion that 35% of the people can give such a massive majority to a single party? Personally I don't think so

If they had to work harder and be more empathetic to the needs of the whole country rather than concentrating on their voter base I think personally the solutions would me more digestible. That said Labour certainly aren't delivering in line with the core Labour values at the moment, or do you believe they are?
 
Last edited:
I've been in favour of PR voting for a good 50 years. With it, there would have been no Thatcher and definitely no Brexit.

However, virtually every country in Europe has PR. Are they all well-run? I don't think so and hence I'm not convinced it's a complete solution.

So what is? I don't know. There's something very wrong with the UK polity. I think in part it's down to us having a really vicious media that is full of twats. The media hammers anyone who steps out of line. That's one reason why Labour is following Tory economic policies. Because Tory economic policies are orthodox, received wisdom. Even though 40 years of experience should have proved to the densest among us that they do not work. Or at least, they don't work in the interests of the overwhelming majority. They do make some people very rich indeed.

I see no solution. Maybe we have to go through an era of being led by fascist cunts to make everyone wake up and turn into revolutionaries. It certainly needs something radical, and I don't see it happening. You're more likely to find Sheikh Mansour kipping under newspapers on a bench in Heaton Park.
 
BrianW said:
I've been in favour of PR voting for a good 50 years. With it, there would have been no Thatcher and definitely no Brexit.

However, virtually every country in Europe has PR. Are they all well-run? I don't think so and hence I'm not convinced it's a complete solution.

So what is? I don't know. There's something very wrong with the UK polity. I think in part it's down to us having a really vicious media that is full of twats. The media hammers anyone who steps out of line. That's one reason why Labour is following Tory economic policies. Because Tory economic policies are orthodox, received wisdom. Even though 40 years of experience should have proved to the densest among us that they do not work. Or at least, they don't work in the interests of the overwhelming majority. They do make some people very rich indeed.

I see no solution. Maybe we have to go through an era of being led by fascist cunts to make everyone wake up and turn into revolutionaries. It certainly needs something radical, and I don't see it happening. You're more likely to find Sheikh Mansour kipping under newspapers on a bench in Heaton Park.
Click to expand...
Not that I would want to but I cannot disagree with you.

For example, take the Italian governments over the years, they can change as often as a whore changes her knickers. But the solution we have does not (and never has really) work either.

First and foremost what we really need is something we are never likely to get and that is grown up responsible politics. We don't need oppositions who oppose just for the sake of it and both major parties are responsible for this.
 
BrianW said:
I've been in favour of PR voting for a good 50 years. With it, there would have been no Thatcher and definitely no Brexit.

However, virtually every country in Europe has PR. Are they all well-run? I don't think so and hence I'm not convinced it's a complete solution.

So what is? I don't know. There's something very wrong with the UK polity. I think in part it's down to us having a really vicious media that is full of twats. The media hammers anyone who steps out of line. That's one reason why Labour is following Tory economic policies. Because Tory economic policies are orthodox, received wisdom. Even though 40 years of experience should have proved to the densest among us that they do not work. Or at least, they don't work in the interests of the overwhelming majority. They do make some people very rich indeed.

I see no solution. Maybe we have to go through an era of being led by fascist cunts to make everyone wake up and turn into revolutionaries. It certainly needs something radical, and I don't see it happening. You're more likely to find Sheikh Mansour kipping under newspapers on a bench in Heaton Park.
Click to expand...
In the last 40 years, the UK has had 14 quarters of recession. That's less than 10% of its quarters in recession. The economy has grown 90%+ of the time.

Economic expansion doesn't benefit everyone equally of course. But economic contraction hurts more people than expansion does I expect.

So while I don't disagree with the thrust of your argument, I will point out that IMO a large proportion of those who decry the state of the world haven't thought through some of the more unsavo(u)ry alternatives thoroughly.

This goes for Americans doubly so btw.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Most politicians are decent people, that do alot of work behind the scenes for there constituents, some visit relatives of victims lost to knife crime etc and visit hospitals to see sick and disabled, many do alot of charity work , they know first hand the problems with society and try their best to get funding for their area - it’s not easy. They get constant abuse, even death threats and crap generalisation like this header.
Click to expand...
I totally agree with you on those points. They become MP's to try and make positive changes to society, but, and it is a big but, they fail, miserably.

They are too cowered to take on the grandees of their party. They may well visit hospitals and local schools, but they haven't the conviction in their hearts to vote against policies their party is introducing they know will make the lives of those they are enjoying a photo opportunity with much worse.

I've said on here before that back bench MP's are, by and large, decent people wanting to make a positive difference, but in reality, they just toe the party line and don't give a crap what their inner conscience is saying to them.

They are too scared of losing the Whip and their nice little earner in what is in all probability the most hostile of working environments in the country.

None of them, whichever party they belong to, are prepared to give an honest answer to a simple question, so we have to listen, yet again, to a broadside of word salad that means absolutely nothing. I'm sure they reflect on their obfuscation with a sense of satisfaction, and a job well done that satisfies their masters, but it's just bullshit that doesn't appease the genuine concerns their constituents have regarding the issues affecting their lives.
 
BobKowalski said:
It’s a sweeping generalisation. I doubt if politicians of yore were any more or less competent than the current crop. The 1960’s saw the Profumo affair and a growing disenchantment as politicians were seen as out of touch, the 1970’s saw a three day week, sharing baths with three inches of water, refuse building on the streets and flare trousers. Heath went to the country to ask the one question a government should never ask: ‘Who runs the country?’ - well, clearly not you, mate.

The media was as bad then as it is now and with more influence. Making a politician ‘squirm’ isn’t political journalism it’s a blood sport and does more harm than good as it leaves little to no room for serious political debate.

The past was never as good as you think it was and the same goes for the people.
Click to expand...
Which members of Sunak’s last cabinet were more impressive than those in Thatcher’s first?
 
I feel the further up the ladder they get the less they relate to the common man, thst said i doubt there us anyone capable of sorting out this current shit show.

Society is fucked as we knew it snd csnt see any way back. I dont recognise this country any more.

Sad times indeed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top