Germany's far right / general German politics

It could have been a lot worse to be honest. Especially pleased by the performance of Die Linke, especially in Berlin. They came a very narrow second to the Greens in my constituency. Also, British media describe them as "far left" but I think that's misleading. Ok it depends on what exactly your scale of "far" is, they're more like a Bennite Labour Party. Also, they're the only German party of any size that isn't relentlessly pro-Israel to the extent of denying and/or defending obvious war crimes.

I like what Cas Mudde says in this article (though I doubt that Merz would follow this advice).
 
Not being talked about as much, but the far left vote has surged too.
Possibly a protest at the shortcomings of the centrist parties than a lurch to the right as such.
 
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the AFD seem to be led by a lesbian who lives most of her life in Switzerland as a migrant which in itself seems rather odd
 
What a vile individual Beatrix Von Storch is.
Her grandad was in Hitler's government.
Considering what they did 33-45 it's taking the piss to be flirting with it again but that's Trump he has enabled them and given them a huge amount of hope
I don't believe AfD is a Nazi party but it certainly contains Nazis and has the support of every Nazi
Nobody knows how this ends but I'm sure some of them bit by bit and backed by the orange rapist think they can pull off the unthinkable , mass deportations or worse.



 
We do in effect via NATO.

If Germany wanted nukes I’m sure they could acquire given their status on the world stage.
We have to rely on others:

In 1990 Germany declared in "2 plus 4 treaty"...

... renunciation of the manufacture, possession of, and control over nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons...

... no foreign armed forces, nuclear weapons, or the carriers for nuclear weapons would be stationed or deployed in the area of Berlin and the former East Germany

... armed forces personnel maximum being 370,000.
 
We have to rely on others:

In 1990 Germany declared in "2 plus 4 treaty"...

... renunciation of the manufacture, possession of, and control over nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons...

... no foreign armed forces, nuclear weapons, or the carriers for nuclear weapons would be stationed or deployed in the area of Berlin and the former East Germany

... armed forces personnel maximum being 370,000.

Things and politics change.
 
What a shit headline you are making from that article!

You are simply producing fake news. That's not really helpful.

Yes, conservatives want to sharpen up migration law to turn voters away from AfD but coalition partner social democrats are a strong counterpart to not drift too far from the mid.

Bottom line, comparing Germany with Trump's 'deportations' is just laughable. Stop that nonsense mate.
 
What a shit headline you are making from that article!

You are simply producing fake news. That's not really helpful.

Yes, conservatives want to sharpen up migration law to turn voters away from AfD but coalition partner social democrats are a strong counterpart to not drift too far from the mid.

Bottom line, comparing Germany with Trump's 'deportations' is just laughable. Stop that nonsense mate.
No, you're wrong. These 4 people are being deported because of their politics - supporting Palestine and opposing genocide. They have no criminal convictions, and the crimes of which they are suspected are not of the level that normally leads to deportations of this kind (serious assaults, theft, drug dealing, etc). Three of them are EU citizens, for which there is supposed to be a very high threshold for stripping away free movement rights. As the lawyers quoted in the article explain, deportations in these circumstances are unprecedented or as good as. Also, the SPD are no protection against this Trumpist policy: the man from the Senatsverwaltung referred to in this article, Oestmann, is very senior in the SPD. Also you should take a look at the reactions to Hanno's article on twitter and Bluesky: most are as shocked as me and not as complacent as you.
 
No, you're wrong. These 4 people are being deported because of their politics - supporting Palestine and opposing genocide. They have no criminal convictions, and the crimes of which they are suspected are not of the level that normally leads to deportations of this kind (serious assaults, theft, drug dealing, etc). Three of them are EU citizens, for which there is supposed to be a very high threshold for stripping away free movement rights. As the lawyers quoted in the article explain, deportations in these circumstances are unprecedented or as good as. Also, the SPD are no protection against this Trumpist policy: the man from the Senatsverwaltung referred to in this article, Oestmann, is very senior in the SPD. Also you should take a look at the reactions to Hanno's article on twitter and Bluesky: most are as shocked as me and not as complacent as you.
The case is completely unknown in German media, took me some time to find enough material for a better assessment.

Your version is extremely one sided (the 4 accused did much more than "thought crimes"), your conclusions are premature (they are not deported) and your US-German comparison - as I said - is laughable.

It's going the legal path and we'll see. As you say, German and EU law are strict, legal obstacle is high. No way legal path will be circumvented.
Appeals are allowed as well.

Like it or not, the special historical situation about Israel is a factor in Germany, and people who live here under German law should at least be aware of that dimension.
So called "Staatsraison" towards Israel has never been part of a legal case up to now, the lawyer Gorski is right. But something has changed on 7 Oct 2023 and the fundamental legal debate in Germany about the consequences is ongoing. We'll see what judges will make of it.
 
The case is completely unknown in German media, took me some time to find enough material for a better assessment.

It's unknown in the German media for two reasons: mainly, because the story came out for the first time yesterday. Although also because the German media is extremely one-sided and dishonest when it comes to issues around Israel/Palestine, and generally fails to report on the extensive repression in Germany. I'd be interested to know what material you found that gave you a 'better assessment', and the details of what you found that you think is illuminating.

Your version is extremely one sided (the 4 accused did much more than "thought crimes"), your conclusions are premature (they are not deported) and your US-German comparison - as I said - is laughable.
How do you know the 4 did anything? They have no convictions. Amusing that you accuse me of being 'prematurely' angry about deportations that have already been decided, while you at the same time assume that any protestor ever accused of anything by a police officer is definitely guilty. Nice left wing values you have there, "St Pauli support."

That said, even if they were convicted of the things of which they are accused, deportations of EU citizens normally meet a much higher bar of conduct: we're talking usually multiple convictions for more serious crimes.

The Trump comparison is obviously apt. He is deporting people for Palestine activism. In the big picture, it's the same phenomenon.

The reason I say they're being deported for 'thought crimes' is because their politics are the ultimate reason they are in this situation. These (suspected) actions would not lead to a deportation if it were not for the fact that they're Palestine activists.

It's not premature. The LEA has already come to the conclusion they should be deported on 21 April. Yes they might win an appeal but that doesn't change the fact that the current decision is to deport them.
It's going the legal path and we'll see. As you say, German and EU law are strict, legal obstacle is high. No way legal path will be circumvented
Yeh, the legal obstacle is high. That's why the official in the LEA quoted in the article told the Senatsverwaltung that there was no legal basis for the deportations - before the Senat overrode them, evidently for political reasons. This overt political interference in a legal process is part of the problem.
Appeals are allowed as well.

Like it or not, the special historical situation about Israel is a factor in Germany, and people who live here under German law should at least be aware of that dimension.
So called "Staatsraison" towards Israel has never been part of a legal case up to now, the lawyer Gorski is right. But something has changed on 7 Oct 2023 and the fundamental legal debate in Germany about the consequences is ongoing. We'll see what judges will make of it.
People who live in Germany should follow the law. The Staatsräson is not a law.

Regardless of Germany's unconditional support for Israeli state violence, deportations of EU citizens also have to follow EU law, as well as the German constitution. The Staatsräson doesn't entitle any German public authority to break either: and again, as quoted in the article, expert legal opinion in Germany is well aware that it's a political principle, not a legal one. It should have no bearing in these deportation proceedings. (See section 5: https://www.bundestag.de/resource/blob/1057386/87023b679b15d99163c49118cf7d3659/WD-2-009-25-pdf.pdf )

To be honest your last remark is a great illustration of the problem, which is that the dominant mainstream view in Germany is that it should have a special responsibility to Israel. No, Germany's responsibility should be towards Jewish people - which too many German people, seemingly you included, do not understand is not identical to the state of Israel. Beyond that, Germany should have a responsibility for the absolute defence of human rights and the rule of law for everybody - a responsibility which is germane both in this case, and much more importantly in the Middle East.
 
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A political institution, Berlin Senate, making a political decision under a lot of political pressure. Unsurprising.

The legal case will be assessed by a judge and as you've shown there's no doubt it would break national and EU law.

That's why I suggested to wait for that decision. I still do.

I don't share your panic to immediately call Germany a Trump like state derived from that single not even legally judged case.

I won't go any further into this, I better hadn't at all. Apologies.
You seem to be involved on a personal level and I respect your aggressive way of defending.
Speculating about my user name and political stance about Israel/Palestine/human rights/German responsibilities I never offered to you though says more about you than me.
Enjoy tonight's match.
 

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