UK supreme court ruling on legal definition of a woman

I think it's the truth for a lot more people than just myself. Like I said, trans people live among us - in toilets, changing rooms, and everywhere else - without us even knowing. I know that thought scares some people, but I would hope that it comforts the majority, just in the sense that we can't know every stranger's sex at birth and yet we get through life with that not really mattering.

Anyway, I don't think you need to be so antagonistic about this. The kind of tone you're using in your posts is part of the reason why this debate has fallen to such low depths. My first post in this thread was just asking questions to the people on the "winning" side this week and all I've done since is try to engage and put my point of view across. I know it's easy to get angry over the internet but please try to compose yourself.
Hi Bob
I'll answer because I know you have a genuine interest in this.

Trans people did indeed live among us for many years without us knowing.

I think the recent issue now is that it's becoming much more aggressive from those with a political/activist agenda.

Speech for example. It might not seem important but I am NOT a "CIS" woman, I'm a woman. That's it: no diminishing my sex or my identity, thanks all the same.

Sports; Let girls and women compete on an equal playing field. Again, not much to ask.

NHS; Allow clear language that is not ambiguous/convuluted and people can understand.

Puberty Blockers; now I know most Trans people may not be a part of promoting this but activism around this whole horrendous, almost dystopian agenda is something future generations may look back on and despair.
I'll tell you now....if anyone encouraged a child to do that then they need putting in prison.

This whole argument, as I've said before, isn't just about toilets etc. It was becoming much more insidious.
Because that is what fringe activists do.

For what it's worth, as you know, I'm live and let live. Unless it encroaches on myself and kids.
 
The best people already have that diversity of thought. They don't work in a vacuum. They think deeply about issues with a large group of intelligent associates helping them. They bring to bare on issues they deliberate on, a lifetime of experience grounded in a history of showcasing excellence in their judgement and pronouncements while leaning on the judgment and expertise of others who have themselves shown a history of excellent judgement and subject matter expertise.

For someone to reduce those experiences to the ages and sexes of the 'old men' is unserious at best.

In the Supreme Court I agree. Not in a cabinet or parliament though, I couldn’t disagree more with that.
 
Trumps America in two lines

Is everything you don't agree with Trump's America?

I despise the right wing but sections of the left have simply lost the plot. Has it ever crossed your mind that you might be wrong? I question myself constantly, do you? Really? Do you really think there are 93 genders? Do you really believe that gender dysphoria is not something that effects an infinitesimally small group of people, but is instead the tip of the iceberg of the gender identities we all posses, everyone of us, irrespective of our sex, gender identities that can be detected as early as two years old, or even earlier! For once tell me, do you really believe that?

Every time this stuff is exposed it wilts immediately, that's why there must be no debate! There is no scientific evidence to back any of it up, zero, ziltch, it's simply an ideology peddled by grifters, some really bad faith actors and the gullible and it preys on some of the most vulnerable people in our society.

The Tavistock is forced to close because of appalling practices, it's an attack on trans people! When the Cass report exposes the destruction of vulnerable kid's lives, it's rubbished! When puberty blockers are banned indefinitely it's Tory Lite Wes Streeting's fault! When Mermaids and Stonewall are embroiled in scandal after scandal, it's the TERFS fault, it's the transphobes it's f**king JK Rowling!

And When For Women Scotland win at the Supreme Court it's a Pyrrhic victory! You do know what a Pyrrhic victory is right? It's a victory that inflicts such a devastating toll on the victor that it is tantamount to defeat.

I don't see defeat on the faces of those women, do you?

You need to engage in a little introspection mate, sometimes the good guys are actually the baddies, fortunately there are brave women around who are tired of waiting for you to come to your senses.
 
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I am transgender. I first realised that something was ‘wrong’ when I was 6 or 7. But I hid it from everyone because I believed that even my close family would reject me if they found out.


I struggled with it my entire life. I would have given anything not to be this way. I hated and despised myself all my life.
I could not have an intimate relationship with anyone because I could never be myself with another person. I never had real friends because my life was a lie, I was not the person they thought I was.

Transitioning and living as a woman was my worst nightmare. It would be the end of life as I knew it. I was convinced I would lose my family and what little friendship I had with people.

Unfortunately, you can only fight it for so long before it becomes impossible to go on. I went ahead and made the change. Suicide was a serious option because the alternative was so terrifying. I did not think I would have the strength to tell everyone the truth about myself and start living as a woman. I found the courage to do it by telling myself that I could always kill myself if it became too terrible. There were many times in the first couple of years that I almost reached that point. The three people that carried me through were all women. I would not be here today without their love and support. None of them were family members although my family were generally supportive.

I would never do anything to make women uncomfortable or afraid. I believe that is true of the vast majority of transwomen.

The ruling today scares me. I had genital surgery nine years ago. I do not have male genitalia. I can be raped in the same way that a biological woman can be raped yet I may find myself having to share male facilities. I undertand the anxiety that having someone who was born male in a female space can cause. I am terrified of being the female in an all male space.

Trans people are not monsters. We did not arrive from space in the last few years, we just became more visible. Trans people have always been here and always will be no matter how many laws are passed against us. We have no choice. We are what we are.

I am not a sexual predator or rapist. I am just another human being like all of you. I want to live my life in peace. I deserve to do that just as much as each of you do.
Thank you for sharing that with us , the abuse trans people get is disgusting. What people need to realise that nobody in their right mind would come out as trans if they didnt believe they were in the wrong body. Why would you expose yourself to such hatred if you had any doubts about who you are

I find some posters repeating trans women are men and should be feared frankly pathetic
 
I don't think it's about being right or wrong, per se. I'm not sure if there is a right or wrong answer to any of this. It's a complicated and sensitive topic which has unfortunately gone very toxic thanks to social media and the culture war stuff we've all been sucked into since around 2016. Trying to learn about the perspective of the other side is more about making an informed decision.

I think the point being made by @BlueHammer85 is that it's about seeing someone from the other side of the debate as a human being, and understanding how they might feel about it. As @Scottyboi can attest to, a post made by a transgender person in this thread has caused him to maybe rethink a few things RE: the TRA vs GC debate. Sometimes it's worth having your views challenged.

I'm good friends with transgender people in my life and I've also got family relations who fall down on the gender critical side of things. I've listened to both sides a lot over the years because it's a subject close to my heart, and I've reached an understanding based on years of reading and listening to people on all sides of this. I'll never hate someone I know who's gender critical because it's very hard to hate someone you know.

But I will admit to becoming angry at people in this thread simply because it's easier to hate usernames instead of people. By the same token, it's been tough to read your posts in this thread because we've chatted about how your wife taught me at primary school and how much of an impact she had on me in fifth year after I spent fourth year basically being bullied by the twat who was supposed to be teaching me.

You've mentioned a couple of times in this thread that your daughter goes to school with two kids who have animal alter egos. Even as someone who casually knows a couple of adults who are furries, I doubt that the kids in your daughter's school have a full understanding of what they're dealing with, but... kids are kids. If you can't experiment and explore your identity as a teenager then when can you? Not everyone needs to experiment, but some do.

But anyway, my point is - have you ever chatted to these kids' parents in the playground to try and work out why their kids feel the way they do? Has your daughter ever spoken to them in school and tried to learn about how those kids feel? If you don't want your daughter asking those questions - have you ever tried to see things from the point of view of those kids who think they're cats sometimes? It might be a little weird, sure, but it'll be less weird once you learn something about it.

I think this is what I find so depressing on both sides of the TRA vs GC debate, and throughout society right now - it's definitely gotten worse since Twitter and Facebook and all that. There's a real lack of empathy and curiosity among everyday people. It feels like we're becoming less and less capable of meeting people in the middle on things, while trying to learn about different cultures and identities and perspectives and ideologies is becoming harder and harder.

To put it in even simpler terms, what's happened to the phrase "live and let live"? I was always brought up with the philosophy that if someone's acting in a way I think is strange but not hurting anyone then I just let them get on with it. More and more these days I'm seeing this desire among people to correct things that stand out for any particular reason instead of just letting sleeping dogs lie, or dismiss things that seem foreign or strange. I just feel sad reading threads like this because I think the lack of appetite for cooperation will ultimately bring us all down.
Youve just taken this to a very personal level. Ive just checked messages that we exchanged a couple of years ago and there was zero talk about my wife helping you through a bullying episode in 5th year, indeed she only taught you for 6 months in primary school so that was an unfair and incorrect stick to try and beat me with. You should apologise

Where as i understand and accept and have no truck with transgenderism, i do have an issue with my 13 year old daughter sharing a changing room at school with a boy who may or may not be transgender or who may or may not be going through a phase. My daughter isnt alone in feeling uncomfortable and wheres as the moment he is supposed to change separately , he has increasingly ‘sneaked in’. Im monitoring it.

As regards to the furries. Whilst i 100% accept that people can be stuck in the wrong sex, im afraid i cant accept somebody being stuck in the wrong animal and being blunt, a 13 year old identifying as a cat either has a mental illness or attention seekery (as kids are prone to do) Either way they need councilling.
I dont want to cause upset, im just saying it how i feel it is.
A grown up identifying as an animal has bigger issues
 
Thank you for sharing that with us , the abuse trans people get is disgusting. What people need to realise that nobody in their right mind would come out as trans if they didnt believe they were in the wrong body. Why would you expose yourself to such hatred if you had any doubts about who you are

I find some posters repeating trans women are men and should be feared frankly pathetic
Is it possible some men dress as women for a sexual thrill?
 
Youve just taken this to a very personal level. Ive just checked messages that we exchanged a couple of years ago and there was zero talk about my wife helping you through a bullying episode in 5th year, indeed she only taught you for 6 months in primary school so that was an unfair and incorrect stick to try and beat me with. You should apologise
As I've said in my earlier post, I'm removing myself from this thread because I'd just be repeating myself RE: the trans issues. But I did just want to apologise if what I said to you wasn't clear - I'm not saying I said anything to you about your wife helping me through a bullying episode (if only because that's not what happened), just that she was a great teacher who I remembered. Reading my post back I can see why you thought that though - being honest, I was just bringing up that my experience with my fourth year teacher was awful based on a post I made in a different thread the other day that I thought you might have seen, that's all. I really wasn't trying to beat you with any stick. I don't want to do that.
 
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Most people obsessed about Trans people have probably never met one in real life, just get constant spoon fed from social media and right wing outlets.
Can I just thank you for being the main poster who posts right wing social media. I'm also glad you never post on the 'trans' thread and therefore avoid the accusation of hilarious hypocrisy.
 
One thing I would comment on the supreme court decision is this...

These are the sexes and ages of the members of the supreme court:

Male, 68
Male, 71
Male, 73
Male, 70
Male, 63
Male, 67
Male, 67
Male, 68
Male, 70
Male, 73
Female, 65
Female, 61

You've basically got a bunch of OAP's (or near), mostly men, deciding on a subject like this. It feels to me that you'd need this decided by a more diverse line up of ages and sexes.
If I were you I'd stick to the 'North Stand Construction' Thread, at least you talk some sence on there.
 

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