VAR Discussion Thread | 2024/25

[GOULDYBOBS]

Evanilson: Bournemouth forward's red card vs Manchester United rescinded after appeal

Bournemouths Evanilson was sent off against Manchester United after referee Peter Bankes was sent to his monitor by VAR to review the strikers challenge on Noussair Mazraoui

www.skysports.com

Morons. Just give me an AI and be done with it.

Now the ref has rescinded the card, should they rescind the point the rags won after an unfair advantage?

 

[waspish]

It remains the ultimate tool to control goals and manipulate outcomes. It’s still humans making judgements and decisions so it remains subjective and imperfect. It’s taking the soul from the game, the authority from officials as well as their confidence. Get rid.

Problem is now we have to subjective views referee then the var bloke but he isn't on his own in there!

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Now the ref has rescinded the card, should they rescind the point the rags won after an unfair advantage?

So ref gives a yellow from his own view, watches video himself and changes it to a red, and now another bunch of people watch it on video and downgrade it again?

Make it make sense!

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Right! Come on! Evenilson red card rescinded? VAR lovers explain how this can happen? Ref sees he slipped. No red card. No real complaints from the rags. Some idiot in a box miles away decides he needs some attention so recommends he should be sent off. On field ref buckles. United get a point as a result. Then it gets overturned!!!! How is this bettering the game. THIS is exactly why there shouldn’t be VAR until it can be run properly. Utterly inexcusable! Be interesting to see any counter arguments. It’s totally ruining the game. Keep online technology and any other technology that keeps it out of the hands of these human idiots if we must, but scrap decisions like these until we can get people trained as experts in how to manage the bloody thing. Aaaagghhhhhh!!!!

Just like in the European game a dubious sending off benefits the rags. Who’s have thunk it hey?

 

[TheBeautifulGame]

So red gives a yellow from his own view, watches video himself and changes it to a red, and now another bunch of people watch it on video and downgrade it again?

Make it make sense!

They can't make up their damn minds . . . on anything!! Way too many damn cooks in the damn kitchen!!!

 

[thegoatsthegoat]

I thought it at the time that they have ignored the slip, a bit like Bruno against Spurs which got overturned too. Another fine example of VAR interfering with a game and ballsing it up

 

[Blue Mist]

They can't make up their damn minds . . . on anything!! Way too many damn cooks in the damn kitchen!!!

You missed the r out of cooks. I'll let you decide where it should be placed

 

[TinFoilHat]

Do Clubs have one of their officials overseeing things in the VAR room ?

Neville, Carragher, and Keown.

Occasionally Danny Murphy as a replacement.

 

[Gray]

Give the Bournemouth player a Red to help out the Rags, then rescind it after they achieved what they set out to do.

 

[Gazza]

I bet Dermot agreed with the VAR on the Monday and now agrees with the rescinded decision on the Wednesday, whilst squirming in his seat.

 

[BigJoe#1]

I bet Dermot agreed with the VAR on the Monday and now agrees with the rescinded decision on the Wednesday, whilst squirming in his seat.

Fuck Dermot, what does he know? We need the VAR activist that knows everything about everything to give his verdict.... of course I am referring to @BlueHammer85 . Nothing is worth talking about until the Oracle has declared what is right and what is wrong...

Stand by your beds...

 

[creditunionhero]

LOL. That is not even close to what I described and challenged you to produce.

There were no theatrics from Jota there whatsoever. He certainly can't be said to have brought himself down, given that he was in the process of turning on a dime and avoiding a slide tackle.

You could reasonably argue that deserved to be a penalty as with most VAR decisions. But here you are claiming that it was a blatant dive. I call bollocks!

Video - 8eb88f9c

Video was uploaded to Streamin.me on Feb 16, 2025.

streamin.me

It was a reckless slide tackle from Agbadou and Jota did very well to avoid a serious collision, in order to stop himself from running straight into into the sliding Agbadou, he kicked the ball to the right and turned himself 90 degrees to the right on a dime to try and get back to the ball, but as he was turning his left foot was impeded by Agbadou and he went down. From the angle above, it appears that the outstretched foot of Agbadou hit the foot, hard to see from the other angles, also the knee appeared to hit the backside of Agbadou as he was trying to play through.

Now you might say that he kept his left leg too far out looking for contact and got it. But contact definitely occurred however slight. It was Agbadou being there on the ground in the midst of a slide tackle that created that situation. Not to mention that that Jota was bumped hard by another defender during the through pass!

It was an incredible play by Jota and he's accused of diving, by (I'm sorry) ignorant and "dive paranoid" football fans like yourself who take every opportunity to accuse players of diving who are merely trying to create an opportunity. In Jota's case, he went to great lengths to avoid contact, as he was turning to avoid the sliding defender, his left foot scrapped off said defender and he went down. This is hugely open to interpretation like most VAR pen / no-pen decisions and I gotta be honest, I thought Jota was hard done by that reversal. He gets bumped on his way to receiving a beautiful through pass, he avoids the reckeless slide tackle, and he's brought down by some slight but significant contact between his left shoe and the backside of Agbadou, but still contact nonetheless that prevented a clear goal scoring opportunity.

I mean, hell, if Jota wanted to draw a penalty, all he had to do was run straight into Agbadou. But he chose to avoid him, get brought down, and is accused of diving. Welcome to modern (bollocks) football.

This is quite the subjective one, further reinforced by the lengthly review and how many times the VAR team requested to see the same angle over and over again. They released the VAR audio on this one :

Match Officials Mic'd Up: Why Jota's penalty was overturned against Wolves

Listen to the audio from the VAR team during the incident between Diogo Jota and Emmanuel Agbadou in Matchweek 25

www.premierleague.com

I would have no problem with that as a penalty, and I'm even declined to think that Jota deserved the penalty.

To accuse him of diving simply because the contact was merely slight, is void of all context as to the speed at which he was running, the fact that he wnt out of his way to avoid the reckless slide tackle.

So your view on this is a good example of "dive paranoia", thinking any time a player goes down in the box without being hit by a sledgehammer it's a dive, and thinking VAR prevented an injustice when in reality it may well have created an injustice. I would have no problem with that as a penalty.

While I certainly understand the reasons that the VAR team would have thought the penalty is harsh, I would chalk this up as another example of VAR subjectively coming to a conclusion simply due to not seeing enough "hard" contact, as if you can't draw a penalty from being tripped due to slight contact.

Ha Ha Ha

 

[hertsblue]

John Brooks
On Var for the pathetic Bournemouth sending off v Rags
On Var for the pathetic penalty v us v Villa

 

[Coljj]

John Brooks
On Var for the pathetic Bournemouth sending off v Rags
On Var for the pathetic penalty v us v Villa

and because the season is almost over I doubt they will release the audio and discuss it. Red card rescinded, sorry it was a mistake, case closed.

In any case Alan Smith on comms who could hear VAR sounded outright annoyed and frustrated how Brooks
"not once!... not once!..." at any point, was a slip ever acknowledged during the tackle.

 

[TheBeautifulGame]

The marginal offside VAR review on the Arsenal equalizer against PSG was excruciating. While I'm certainly no fan of Arsenal, it's embarrassing to see all those fans go mental only for all that joy in the stadium to be erased like that. All those fans going mental must feel really stupid now for celebrating. That's what they get for trying to celebrate a major goal the old fashioned way. They should have known better. They should have sat their twiddling their thumbs for 4 minutes before getting permission to celebrate by the VARs. They had to wait and wait and wait with dread on their faces waiting and staring at that ref with his thumb in his earpiece.

Remember guys, the all mighty Champions is too poor to have a Chip in the ball like in the Premier League, so they still have to twiddle their thumbs for minutes on end to make an offsides decisions, whilst half-pretending like they're using SAOT but not fully.

I just can't imagine what it must have been like for those Arsenal fans. To have that equalizing joy ripped away like that, but not like ripping a band aid off quickly, but slowly pulling the band aid off and havinf each hair on your skin ripped one by one, and feeling every pain. Or death by a million paper cuts to use another analogy. This sort of thing has no place in football. NONE. It's so bent to even see that unfold like that. In the old days that's a stonewall "goal" no questions asked, no controversy whatsoever. All them dudes were about in-line, that's all you need. But with VAR it's callously chalked off.

But not to give the impression that Arsenal were un done in the match, that wasn't the only VAR controversy in the match, or in this case a non-VAR controversy. Maybe even making more noise was the non-penalty by Jurrien Timber on Kvaratskhelia. Kvaratskhelia who was having his way with Timber all night got held and brought down in the box. No penalty, and to much surprise and fanfare no VAR check either.

We've seen much less go to a VAR review and turn into a penalty. But not here. Holy inconsistency Batman.

In this case maybe the two controversies could be said to balances themselves out, on the other hand, we've been robbed of what could have been a much different match.

 

[lasereyes]

The marginal offside VAR review on the Arsenal equalizer against PSG was excruciating. While I'm certainly no fan of Arsenal, it's embarrassing to see all those fans go mental only for all that joy in the stadium to be erased like that. All those fans going mental must feel really stupid now for celebrating. That's what they get for trying to celebrate a major goal the old fashioned way. They should have known better. They should have sat their twiddling their thumbs for 4 minutes before getting permission to celebrate by the VARs. They had to wait and wait and wait with dread on their faces waiting and staring at that ref with his thumb in his earpiece.

Remember guys, the all mighty Champions is too poor to have a Chip in the ball like in the Premier League, so they still have to twiddle their thumbs for minutes on end to make an offsides decisions, whilst half-pretending like they're using SAOT but not fully.

I just can't imagine what it must have been like for those Arsenal fans. To have that equalizing joy ripped away like that, but not like ripping a band aid off quickly, but slowly pulling the band aid off and havinf each hair on your skin ripped one by one, and feeling every pain. Or death by a million paper cuts to use another analogy. This sort of thing has no place in football. NONE. It's so bent to even see that unfold like that. In the old days that's a stonewall "goal" no questions asked, no controversy whatsoever. All them dudes were about in-line, that's all you need. But with VAR it's callously chalked off.

But not to give the impression that Arsenal were un done in the match, that wasn't the only VAR controversy in the match, or in this case a non-VAR controversy. Maybe even making more noise was the non-penalty by Jurrien Timber on Kvaratskhelia. Kvaratskhelia who was having his way with Timber all night got held and brought down in the box. No penalty, and to much surprise and fanfare no VAR check either.

We've seen much less go to a VAR review and turn into a penalty. But not here. Holy inconsistency Batman.

In this case maybe the two controversies could be said to balances themselves out, on the other hand, we've been robbed of what could have been a much different match.

Arsenals "goal" however close was correctly chalked off. How does that cancel vs a very good penalty shout?

 

[TheBeautifulGame]

Arsenals "goal" however close was correctly chalked off. How does that cancel vs a very good penalty shout?

I'm not disputing that, though the intent of the offsides law was never designed to have goals chalked off in such a manner. Being onside was always about being "about" in-line with the last defender, and that was that. That's why we hear so many who have suggested a so-called "daylight" rule due to how annoying this whole situation is. There was certainly no "daylight" there, with a group of players densely packed and jostling with one another anticipating the cross in and micro moving about as is typical in a situation like that. In a situation like that, no one has the ability to really know if they are onsides or off due to everyones micro movements and not being able to predict when precisely the ball is played. Offsides was never intended to be adjudicated in such a way as to leave fans in perpetual limbo following a goal as we are seeing waiting and annoyed by not knowing if they can celebrate or not. How stupid did those Arsenal fans feel after going mental only having to sit on their hands for minutes on end then to un-mental themselves and regroup as if the best part of the match didn't just happen. It's a bizarre and infuriating ordeal for fans to repeatedly have to go through and there's nothing acceptable or normal about it. Before VAR, no one would have ever had an issue with that being a goal. That was a perfectly good goal in normal football. That's the point.

Be that as it may, the optics of this sort of thing are obviously horrendous. It was a spectacular moment of joy to have the fans go mental as they would after a major equalizing goal like that only to see the VAR-induced dread slowly start to creep in and destroy the moment. Seeing those smiles slowly turn to worry and then slowly turn to sadness as we've seen so many times with VAR is quite the sore spot and a rude detraction to the match.

As it pertains to the Kvaratskhelia no-pen and no review, if we're looking at these situations without VAR being in play, the match may well have ended 1-1 or it could have led to an epic late winner or something dramatic, or maybe PSG would have gone 2-0 up had the ref pointed to the spot when he could have. And if he had, with VAR lets say and it went to a VAR review, as it presumably would in that scenario, then it would be difficult to reverse that decision if a pen were given.

So one could look at both of those from the standpoint that each situation could be said to balance each other out, or not. But we'll never know now will we. It is yet another data point to remind us that VAR hasn't brought any clarity to the sport, it hasn't stopped controversy or post match debates over decisions as was the expectation for why it was brought in. All it's done is reduced fans joy and is constantly making fans embarrass themselves for celebrating goals in the moment as they would only to chalk them off as if to scold them for celebrating as if they shouldn't have. An absolute horror for the match day fan. To have their one moment of pure joy be erased like that in such an unceremonious dystopian fashion as if someone could erase a beautiful moment like that is nothing short of a travesty every single time.

 

[TheBeautifulGame]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this doozy.

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Called a penalty on the pitch in 2nd half stoppage time, VAR gets involved and through a lengthly review the penalty is rescinded. While the focus of the review and the commentators seemed to be only in regards to any contact between the legs of the defender, they seemed to completely ignore the hand smack to the back of Raphinha by the defender. Not only is the penalty reversed but Raphinha is then yellow carded for "simulation".

The hand slap to the back of Raphinha is more than enough to uphold the penalty despite the VAR review observing no leg to leg contact. To not only reverse the penalty but then to book Raphinha for so-called diving when he indeed was smacked in the back is missing the plot.

This is yet another example of "dive paranoia" and its affect on the decision-making process, the extent of which being exacerbated by VAR. The obsession of VAR when it pertains to trying to discern whether or not the attacker has fallen in an exaggerated or embellished way knows no bounds. Raphinha may well have fallen down in a way that could be interpreted as embellishing, but that is immaterial to the clear contact that occurred to his back from the arm and hand of the defender. It wasn't just a slight tap, it was as if he was winding up a punch.

For VAR to ignore that and only focus on any leg to leg contact and the way Raphinha falling is to use a metaphor to fail to see the forest for the trees. This dive paranoia problem is a cancer to football and the incompetence of VAR never ceases to amaze me.

If this wasn't bad enough, just before that, Barcelona should have got another penalty due to clear leg to leg contact, that wasn't given, and in this case there was no VAR either.



As can be seen from this angle, the leg was clearly hooked :



Had that one gone to VAR, surely it results in a penalty as they get the clear leg to leg contact that was missing in the other one. But no penalty there, no VAR review, nothing to see her folks. But they reverse the other one and issue a booking to the player who was sent down by a clear impossible to miss slap to the player's back. The defender didn't get the ball there either.

Between both of those challenges, we should all be able to agree that at least one of those should have been a penalty. And without VAR in place, there would have been. And this is why it's better to just let the referee make instinctive decisions. The focus should not be on so-called "simulation" or to try to analyze the aesthetics of how a player is falling down and whether or not it looks to be natural. That's entirely subjective.

If clear contact is observed, be it slaps to the back of the attacker, or leg hooks, without the defender getting the ball, it's a penalty. The VARs must think they were so clever there observing no contact between the legs, while completely ignoring the slap to the back. It's an absolute riot the way this system operates.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Arsenals "goal" however close was correctly chalked off. How does that cancel vs a very good penalty shout?

I didn't watch the game. Why would I?

But how close was this offside?

I only ask because the best SAOT system on the planet (apparently), the PL version, has a 5 cm tolerance built-in, but the UEFA version doesn't. So how do you know the call was correct? Because UEFA say it was and backs it up with a sexy graphic based on the data you don't know is accurate in the first place?

The implication of the PL system having a tolerance and the UEFA (and FIFA) system not having one is huge. I am surprised no-one mentions it.

 

[halfcenturyup]

The marginal offside VAR review on the Arsenal equalizer against PSG was excruciating. While I'm certainly no fan of Arsenal, it's embarrassing to see all those fans go mental only for all that joy in the stadium to be erased like that. All those fans going mental must feel really stupid now for celebrating. That's what they get for trying to celebrate a major goal the old fashioned way. They should have known better. They should have sat their twiddling their thumbs for 4 minutes before getting permission to celebrate by the VARs. They had to wait and wait and wait with dread on their faces waiting and staring at that ref with his thumb in his earpiece.

Remember guys, the all mighty Champions is too poor to have a Chip in the ball like in the Premier League, so they still have to twiddle their thumbs for minutes on end to make an offsides decisions, whilst half-pretending like they're using SAOT but not fully.

I just can't imagine what it must have been like for those Arsenal fans. To have that equalizing joy ripped away like that, but not like ripping a band aid off quickly, but slowly pulling the band aid off and havinf each hair on your skin ripped one by one, and feeling every pain. Or death by a million paper cuts to use another analogy. This sort of thing has no place in football. NONE. It's so bent to even see that unfold like that. In the old days that's a stonewall "goal" no questions asked, no controversy whatsoever. All them dudes were about in-line, that's all you need. But with VAR it's callously chalked off.

But not to give the impression that Arsenal were un done in the match, that wasn't the only VAR controversy in the match, or in this case a non-VAR controversy. Maybe even making more noise was the non-penalty by Jurrien Timber on Kvaratskhelia. Kvaratskhelia who was having his way with Timber all night got held and brought down in the box. No penalty, and to much surprise and fanfare no VAR check either.

We've seen much less go to a VAR review and turn into a penalty. But not here. Holy inconsistency Batman.

In this case maybe the two controversies could be said to balances themselves out, on the other hand, we've been robbed of what could have been a much different match.

Are you saying (amongst many other things) that the PL SAOT has a chip in the ball? If you are saying that, it doesn't.