Juanma Lillo | Leaving the club before the CWC (p52)

[mancboy]

No, my annoyance at the lack of basic technical knowledge about the game of football by people who are football obsessives because they only know it as an entertainment product will never be sated

then you are doomed to be an angry person for ever

 

[Gordyola]

Because Lillo never stays anywhere for more than a few years and wanted to move on. He's been a professional coach since he was 17 and had a single job longer than 3 years in his entire career and that's by design. When Pep used to talk about never staying anywhere longer than 3-5 years, that is a direct Lillo philosophy.

This guy essentially invented modern football theory and the know nowts on here talk about him like he's some moron Pep dragged up from somewhere. Pep moved halfway across the world to play football for a shit Mexican team specifically to work under Lillo. How do people not know who he is? His ideas are now required reading on every coaching course on the planet.

I'll put it another way. Lillo is a better and more influential coach than every single coach in the history of this entire football club outside of Guardiola and very arguably Allison. Ten times more influential on the game than Mancini, Pellegrini, Sven, McDowall and Wild. It beggars belief that there's a bunch of people who claim to be knowledgeable and follow football and think he's some random guy who "doesn't challenge Pep" and "has the same ideas as him". It's the literal opposite. Lillo's (current) ideas are the antithesis to Pep's and were mirrored (i.e. stolen) by Fernando Diniz in the same way the 4-2-3-1 was invented by him then popularised by others and the precursor to positional play's modern interpretation was invented by him and popularised by others and the approach to player coaching was at least pioneered by him and now is the absolute standard across the whole industry.

And this "old man" rhetoric is such horseshit. He's the same age as Ange, one and a bit years older than Klopp. At 59, he's probably younger than some of the people on this forum claiming he's too old. He probably looks like that because when he was 20 years old he was a professional football manager and has spent his entire life in these positions. By 28, he was coaching in one of the best leagues in the world back when it was unheard of to have a manager under 40 let alone 30.

Juanma isn't a great manager because he's a blue sky thinker. He needs to be with a Guardiola or a Sampaoli because he needs someone to help him man manage and communicate his ideas in the broad strokes. He'd probably be the best consultant to a Sporting Director in history because he's always 5 years ahead of the curve tactically and the job of a Viana is to build a team for what football looks like in 5 years and not 5 months. But he loves the training pitch, it doesn't matter to him whether he's in China or Qatar or Japan or Mexico or Chile or Manchester, working with players to improve performance is his passion.

Him moving on again is a massive negative in every possible way and the idea that he can be replaced by some pundit or even an ex-player who used to run around a bit is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. All of the comments about "what people want" from "the new coaching staff" such as someone willing to challenge Pep and go toe to toe with him, who has different methods, different football ideas, thought about things different but still had the respect of Pep for him to consider them. Yeah, that's who we've just lost. But he doesn't wave his arms like a madman during the game so he must be shit.

But bring in Iniesta. He's never done a single day of coaching in his life and his footballing philosophy is basically a carbon copy of Pep's and he worships Pep so would probably never argue with him. But I remember him as a player and he was glamorous. So he must be a good coach right? Let's give him literally one of the top 5 technical coaching jobs in world football because of it.

Well said sir

Pin this post at the beginning if possible

Unfortunately this is the modern age, people spouting off about something they have little knowledge of and feel as though they are experts too lazy to even do a simple search to gain the information before opening their gobs

 

[Manchester_lalala]

Because Lillo never stays anywhere for more than a few years and wanted to move on. He's been a professional coach since he was 17 and had a single job longer than 3 years in his entire career and that's by design. When Pep used to talk about never staying anywhere longer than 3-5 years, that is a direct Lillo philosophy.

This guy essentially invented modern football theory and the know nowts on here talk about him like he's some moron Pep dragged up from somewhere. Pep moved halfway across the world to play football for a shit Mexican team specifically to work under Lillo. How do people not know who he is? His ideas are now required reading on every coaching course on the planet.

I'll put it another way. Lillo is a better and more influential coach than every single coach in the history of this entire football club outside of Guardiola and very arguably Allison. Ten times more influential on the game than Mancini, Pellegrini, Sven, McDowall and Wild. It beggars belief that there's a bunch of people who claim to be knowledgeable and follow football and think he's some random guy who "doesn't challenge Pep" and "has the same ideas as him". It's the literal opposite. Lillo's (current) ideas are the antithesis to Pep's and were mirrored (i.e. stolen) by Fernando Diniz in the same way the 4-2-3-1 was invented by him then popularised by others and the precursor to positional play's modern interpretation was invented by him and popularised by others and the approach to player coaching was at least pioneered by him and now is the absolute standard across the whole industry.

And this "old man" rhetoric is such horseshit. He's the same age as Ange, one and a bit years older than Klopp. At 59, he's probably younger than some of the people on this forum claiming he's too old. He probably looks like that because when he was 20 years old he was a professional football manager and has spent his entire life in these positions. By 28, he was coaching in one of the best leagues in the world back when it was unheard of to have a manager under 40 let alone 30.

Juanma isn't a great manager because he's a blue sky thinker. He needs to be with a Guardiola or a Sampaoli because he needs someone to help him man manage and communicate his ideas in the broad strokes. He'd probably be the best consultant to a Sporting Director in history because he's always 5 years ahead of the curve tactically and the job of a Viana is to build a team for what football looks like in 5 years and not 5 months. But he loves the training pitch, it doesn't matter to him whether he's in China or Qatar or Japan or Mexico or Chile or Manchester, working with players to improve performance is his passion.

Him moving on again is a massive negative in every possible way and the idea that he can be replaced by some pundit or even an ex-player who used to run around a bit is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. All of the comments about "what people want" from "the new coaching staff" such as someone willing to challenge Pep and go toe to toe with him, who has different methods, different football ideas, thought about things different but still had the respect of Pep for him to consider them. Yeah, that's who we've just lost. But he doesn't wave his arms like a madman during the game so he must be shit.

But bring in Iniesta. He's never done a single day of coaching in his life and his footballing philosophy is basically a carbon copy of Pep's and he worships Pep so would probably never argue with him. But I remember him as a player and he was glamorous. So he must be a good coach right? Let's give him literally one of the top 5 technical coaching jobs in world football because of it.

Well said. I don’t understand the people who are pleased with his departure. What the fuck do they know about what Lillo did? He may have been shit, he may have been good. Pep has relied on him twice, that says a lot about the man.

 

[GaudinoMotors]

Because Lillo never stays anywhere for more than a few years and wanted to move on. He's been a professional coach since he was 17 and had a single job longer than 3 years in his entire career and that's by design. When Pep used to talk about never staying anywhere longer than 3-5 years, that is a direct Lillo philosophy.

This guy essentially invented modern football theory and the know nowts on here talk about him like he's some moron Pep dragged up from somewhere. Pep moved halfway across the world to play football for a shit Mexican team specifically to work under Lillo. How do people not know who he is? His ideas are now required reading on every coaching course on the planet.

I'll put it another way. Lillo is a better and more influential coach than every single coach in the history of this entire football club outside of Guardiola and very arguably Allison. Ten times more influential on the game than Mancini, Pellegrini, Sven, McDowall and Wild. It beggars belief that there's a bunch of people who claim to be knowledgeable and follow football and think he's some random guy who "doesn't challenge Pep" and "has the same ideas as him". It's the literal opposite. Lillo's (current) ideas are the antithesis to Pep's and were mirrored (i.e. stolen) by Fernando Diniz in the same way the 4-2-3-1 was invented by him then popularised by others and the precursor to positional play's modern interpretation was invented by him and popularised by others and the approach to player coaching was at least pioneered by him and now is the absolute standard across the whole industry.

And this "old man" rhetoric is such horseshit. He's the same age as Ange, one and a bit years older than Klopp. At 59, he's probably younger than some of the people on this forum claiming he's too old. He probably looks like that because when he was 20 years old he was a professional football manager and has spent his entire life in these positions. By 28, he was coaching in one of the best leagues in the world back when it was unheard of to have a manager under 40 let alone 30.

Juanma isn't a great manager because he's a blue sky thinker. He needs to be with a Guardiola or a Sampaoli because he needs someone to help him man manage and communicate his ideas in the broad strokes. He'd probably be the best consultant to a Sporting Director in history because he's always 5 years ahead of the curve tactically and the job of a Viana is to build a team for what football looks like in 5 years and not 5 months. But he loves the training pitch, it doesn't matter to him whether he's in China or Qatar or Japan or Mexico or Chile or Manchester, working with players to improve performance is his passion.

Him moving on again is a massive negative in every possible way and the idea that he can be replaced by some pundit or even an ex-player who used to run around a bit is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. All of the comments about "what people want" from "the new coaching staff" such as someone willing to challenge Pep and go toe to toe with him, who has different methods, different football ideas, thought about things different but still had the respect of Pep for him to consider them. Yeah, that's who we've just lost. But he doesn't wave his arms like a madman during the game so he must be shit.

But bring in Iniesta. He's never done a single day of coaching in his life and his footballing philosophy is basically a carbon copy of Pep's and he worships Pep so would probably never argue with him. But I remember him as a player and he was glamorous. So he must be a good coach right? Let's give him literally one of the top 5 technical coaching jobs in world football because of it.

Agree with all that - until the last paragraph. Arteta did alright.

Any names you'd feel are up to it?

 

[waitandsee]

Because Lillo never stays anywhere for more than a few years and wanted to move on. He's been a professional coach since he was 17 and had a single job longer than 3 years in his entire career and that's by design. When Pep used to talk about never staying anywhere longer than 3-5 years, that is a direct Lillo philosophy.

This guy essentially invented modern football theory and the know nowts on here talk about him like he's some moron Pep dragged up from somewhere. Pep moved halfway across the world to play football for a shit Mexican team specifically to work under Lillo. How do people not know who he is? His ideas are now required reading on every coaching course on the planet.

I'll put it another way. Lillo is a better and more influential coach than every single coach in the history of this entire football club outside of Guardiola and very arguably Allison. Ten times more influential on the game than Mancini, Pellegrini, Sven, McDowall and Wild. It beggars belief that there's a bunch of people who claim to be knowledgeable and follow football and think he's some random guy who "doesn't challenge Pep" and "has the same ideas as him". It's the literal opposite. Lillo's (current) ideas are the antithesis to Pep's and were mirrored (i.e. stolen) by Fernando Diniz in the same way the 4-2-3-1 was invented by him then popularised by others and the precursor to positional play's modern interpretation was invented by him and popularised by others and the approach to player coaching was at least pioneered by him and now is the absolute standard across the whole industry.

And this "old man" rhetoric is such horseshit. He's the same age as Ange, one and a bit years older than Klopp. At 59, he's probably younger than some of the people on this forum claiming he's too old. He probably looks like that because when he was 20 years old he was a professional football manager and has spent his entire life in these positions. By 28, he was coaching in one of the best leagues in the world back when it was unheard of to have a manager under 40 let alone 30.

Juanma isn't a great manager because he's a blue sky thinker. He needs to be with a Guardiola or a Sampaoli because he needs someone to help him man manage and communicate his ideas in the broad strokes. He'd probably be the best consultant to a Sporting Director in history because he's always 5 years ahead of the curve tactically and the job of a Viana is to build a team for what football looks like in 5 years and not 5 months. But he loves the training pitch, it doesn't matter to him whether he's in China or Qatar or Japan or Mexico or Chile or Manchester, working with players to improve performance is his passion.

Him moving on again is a massive negative in every possible way and the idea that he can be replaced by some pundit or even an ex-player who used to run around a bit is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. All of the comments about "what people want" from "the new coaching staff" such as someone willing to challenge Pep and go toe to toe with him, who has different methods, different football ideas, thought about things different but still had the respect of Pep for him to consider them. Yeah, that's who we've just lost. But he doesn't wave his arms like a madman during the game so he must be shit.

But bring in Iniesta. He's never done a single day of coaching in his life and his footballing philosophy is basically a carbon copy of Pep's and he worships Pep so would probably never argue with him. But I remember him as a player and he was glamorous. So he must be a good coach right? Let's give him literally one of the top 5 technical coaching jobs in world football because of it.

Exactly. Hard to believe he has fallen out with Pep. A football philosopher - read Marti Peranau's book to understand how valued he is and was.

 

[Mr HJ]

Because Lillo never stays anywhere for more than a few years and wanted to move on. He's been a professional coach since he was 17 and had a single job longer than 3 years in his entire career and that's by design. When Pep used to talk about never staying anywhere longer than 3-5 years, that is a direct Lillo philosophy.

This guy essentially invented modern football theory and the know nowts on here talk about him like he's some moron Pep dragged up from somewhere. Pep moved halfway across the world to play football for a shit Mexican team specifically to work under Lillo. How do people not know who he is? His ideas are now required reading on every coaching course on the planet.

I'll put it another way. Lillo is a better and more influential coach than every single coach in the history of this entire football club outside of Guardiola and very arguably Allison. Ten times more influential on the game than Mancini, Pellegrini, Sven, McDowall and Wild. It beggars belief that there's a bunch of people who claim to be knowledgeable and follow football and think he's some random guy who "doesn't challenge Pep" and "has the same ideas as him". It's the literal opposite. Lillo's (current) ideas are the antithesis to Pep's and were mirrored (i.e. stolen) by Fernando Diniz in the same way the 4-2-3-1 was invented by him then popularised by others and the precursor to positional play's modern interpretation was invented by him and popularised by others and the approach to player coaching was at least pioneered by him and now is the absolute standard across the whole industry.

And this "old man" rhetoric is such horseshit. He's the same age as Ange, one and a bit years older than Klopp. At 59, he's probably younger than some of the people on this forum claiming he's too old. He probably looks like that because when he was 20 years old he was a professional football manager and has spent his entire life in these positions. By 28, he was coaching in one of the best leagues in the world back when it was unheard of to have a manager under 40 let alone 30.

Juanma isn't a great manager because he's a blue sky thinker. He needs to be with a Guardiola or a Sampaoli because he needs someone to help him man manage and communicate his ideas in the broad strokes. He'd probably be the best consultant to a Sporting Director in history because he's always 5 years ahead of the curve tactically and the job of a Viana is to build a team for what football looks like in 5 years and not 5 months. But he loves the training pitch, it doesn't matter to him whether he's in China or Qatar or Japan or Mexico or Chile or Manchester, working with players to improve performance is his passion.

Him moving on again is a massive negative in every possible way and the idea that he can be replaced by some pundit or even an ex-player who used to run around a bit is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. All of the comments about "what people want" from "the new coaching staff" such as someone willing to challenge Pep and go toe to toe with him, who has different methods, different football ideas, thought about things different but still had the respect of Pep for him to consider them. Yeah, that's who we've just lost. But he doesn't wave his arms like a madman during the game so he must be shit.

But bring in Iniesta. He's never done a single day of coaching in his life and his footballing philosophy is basically a carbon copy of Pep's and he worships Pep so would probably never argue with him. But I remember him as a player and he was glamorous. So he must be a good coach right? Let's give him literally one of the top 5 technical coaching jobs in world football because of it.

And - contender for post of the day at 8:32. Agree 100%.

 

[adopted_manc]

Because Lillo never stays anywhere for more than a few years and wanted to move on. He's been a professional coach since he was 17 and had a single job longer than 3 years in his entire career and that's by design. When Pep used to talk about never staying anywhere longer than 3-5 years, that is a direct Lillo philosophy.

This guy essentially invented modern football theory and the know nowts on here talk about him like he's some moron Pep dragged up from somewhere. Pep moved halfway across the world to play football for a shit Mexican team specifically to work under Lillo. How do people not know who he is? His ideas are now required reading on every coaching course on the planet.

I'll put it another way. Lillo is a better and more influential coach than every single coach in the history of this entire football club outside of Guardiola and very arguably Allison. Ten times more influential on the game than Mancini, Pellegrini, Sven, McDowall and Wild. It beggars belief that there's a bunch of people who claim to be knowledgeable and follow football and think he's some random guy who "doesn't challenge Pep" and "has the same ideas as him". It's the literal opposite. Lillo's (current) ideas are the antithesis to Pep's and were mirrored (i.e. stolen) by Fernando Diniz in the same way the 4-2-3-1 was invented by him then popularised by others and the precursor to positional play's modern interpretation was invented by him and popularised by others and the approach to player coaching was at least pioneered by him and now is the absolute standard across the whole industry.

And this "old man" rhetoric is such horseshit. He's the same age as Ange, one and a bit years older than Klopp. At 59, he's probably younger than some of the people on this forum claiming he's too old. He probably looks like that because when he was 20 years old he was a professional football manager and has spent his entire life in these positions. By 28, he was coaching in one of the best leagues in the world back when it was unheard of to have a manager under 40 let alone 30.

Juanma isn't a great manager because he's a blue sky thinker. He needs to be with a Guardiola or a Sampaoli because he needs someone to help him man manage and communicate his ideas in the broad strokes. He'd probably be the best consultant to a Sporting Director in history because he's always 5 years ahead of the curve tactically and the job of a Viana is to build a team for what football looks like in 5 years and not 5 months. But he loves the training pitch, it doesn't matter to him whether he's in China or Qatar or Japan or Mexico or Chile or Manchester, working with players to improve performance is his passion.

Him moving on again is a massive negative in every possible way and the idea that he can be replaced by some pundit or even an ex-player who used to run around a bit is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. All of the comments about "what people want" from "the new coaching staff" such as someone willing to challenge Pep and go toe to toe with him, who has different methods, different football ideas, thought about things different but still had the respect of Pep for him to consider them. Yeah, that's who we've just lost. But he doesn't wave his arms like a madman during the game so he must be shit.

But bring in Iniesta. He's never done a single day of coaching in his life and his footballing philosophy is basically a carbon copy of Pep's and he worships Pep so would probably never argue with him. But I remember him as a player and he was glamorous. So he must be a good coach right? Let's give him literally one of the top 5 technical coaching jobs in world football because of it.

I can't claim to be knowledgeable about football at all, so I am not able to comment on the substance of your post.

But I enjoyed your well-written post and made me reflect on a few things while reading it. E.g. on why Pep decided to play football in Mexico :-)

Thanks a lot for taking the time to write it.

 

[Shaelumstash]

I like Lillo and respect his reputation as an innovator.

However both times he’s been Pep’s assistant have corresponded with spells where we played Lillo’s favoured 4231 for prolonged periods.

Having two holding midfielders can sometimes result in us being passive, playing slowly with lots of square balls and can be boring to watch. Obviously Rodri being out this season has restricted our ability to play with one.

In spells when Lillo was not at the club, we have tended to play a high pressing 433 with only one holding midfielder instead of two.

In my opinion, we’re far more exciting to watch and tend to be more successful on the pitch playing a high pressing 433.

I think that’s when Pep is at his best. No other manager can live with him when he has the personnel and the inclination to play that way.

Hopefully with Rodri coming back, and potentially a new assistant, we might get back to that high pressing, exciting, attacking style.

 

[SiMCFC]

No, my annoyance at the lack of basic technical knowledge about the game of football by people who are football obsessives because they only know it as an entertainment product will never be sated

I get your point there but it's hardly basic technical knowledge knowing what Lillo likes for breakfast mate, he's a clever footballing bloke 100% but a bit like Ancelloti Jr, he's just a cog in a big system at City imo, if he was as good as he is on paper why has he struggled (alongside Pep) to counteract the low block football we've endured for a number of seasons?

Football is and always will be cyclic, today's top dogs will be tommorows legends and all that...

 

[Snape]

Lillo is a master of control, but we lack someone who just runs beyond the lines or takes a risk.

 

[lightning Rodri]

why has he struggled (alongside Pep) to counteract the low block football we've endured for a number of seasons?

They have not struggled against low block football. I remember us winning everything there's to win last few seasons playing more than 90% of our games vs low blocks.

 

[supercity88]

Lillo has had an incredible impact on football, but his rotation is up and off he goes as per usual. It's his MO so no surprise. I wouldn't put our issues this season on him or Pep. They've tried to fix things and when you see we were the form team from January, albeit due to the dippers/tarquins giving up on things, you'd have to say it was job done.

It's hard to know who will be next, but it's unlikely to be someone without any experience in coaching. It's a critical role. Pep is so fucking intense, he needs someone who can deal with him and bring a fresh approach and new ideas. We don't need two mad men patrolling the side lines. Lillo was calm and composed and saw the big picture whilst Pep kicked every ball.

I'm not sure if he'd be effective as an assistant, but I would like to see Henry involved in the club. A legend of a player who would instantly command respect from our squad which helps lift things. He knows Pep, he loves Pep but he is also stubborn enough a character to potentially not back down to him on certain elements. He knows the importance of control but he also has a passion for attacking football, for players being attack minded and higher risk in possession. I feel like he could get more out of our attacking players if he was at the club.

 

[dadnlad]

Agree with all that - until the last paragraph. Arteta did alright.

Any names you'd feel are up to it?

yeah but he was only BBC
Bibs Balls n Cones
boom tish

 

[decmancity]

if he was as good as he is on paper why has he struggled (alongside Pep) to counteract the low block football we've endured for a number of seasons?

Are we talking about struggling during the most successful period in the clubs history, setting and breaking records year on year?

Or are you just talking about the most recent 6mths?

 

[Blue warrior]

Kolo Toure and Pep Ljinders under consideration so join Pep’s team.

 

[falcon117]

intensity is out identify.

 

[Mancini’s Pastilles]

Kolo Toure and Pep Ljinders under consideration so join Pep’s team.

Ljinders was klopps assistant. Might be good shout. Kolo not sure on. Wasnt he brendas assistant

 

[Damanino]

Kolo? hmm...

not too sure he is Arteta, Maresca, Lillo level.

 

[Tricky_Trev]

Does Ljinders still have access to the inhalers?

 

[skillman]

Kolo? Not for me. But that's from an ignorant POV more than anything.

Ljinders would be great, though, given his relative success with Klippety.

Another exclusive from Romano, though - I wonder if he is mates with Viana...