Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

Damocles said:
I understand that this is such an emotive issue but moderating this and making decisions between emotional and outright genocidal is becoming difficult.

I'll ask for people to try and talk like you would in a pub but it's a losing battle. We should talk about this issue but we can't if people are calling each other serial killers and they're arguing back. There's just no way to function like this. Take a breath lads.
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Another thing worth pointing out - it’s pretty shit when you post in good faith and someone calls you an antisemite or says you’re supporting genocide, and the first reaction is to argue back and defend yourself, but if you actually report a comment and give the mods a chance to remove it you’ll save yourself (and everyone else who has to read the ensuing argument) a lot of bother.

As the old George Bernard Shaw quote goes -

"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it”.
 
Postman Pep said:
Fair enough. Think this is part of the problem though.
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The blue phantom said:
Tbh Damocles I wouldn't be having any mates who have come out with statements of the IDF are doing absolutely nothing wrong. Palestinians don't excist. All the Gaza Strip and West Bank belong to Israel. These posters need pulling up.
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domalino said:
Another thing worth pointing out - it’s pretty shit when you post in good faith and someone calls you an antisemite or says you’re supporting genocide, and the first reaction is to argue back and defend yourself, but if you actually report a comment and give the mods a chance to remove it you’ll save yourself (and everyone else who has to read the ensuing argument) a lot of bother.

As the old George Bernard Shaw quote goes -

"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it”.
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No, what you're saying about good faith is correct. Listen we might have had barnys in the past or whatever but the mod team is trying its best to really get people's point across here without censorship but remove things that we think are over the line. And if its not removed, we don't think that's acceptable, we probably just haven't thought about it in context or through innuendo or maybe we lack the knowledge to do so.

We're flawed here. I can only speak for myself but some of you guys know 10 billion times more than I do but when I see something I think is "unfair" then I'll delete it. I'm not asking for you guys to fail to express your full opinions, I'm just saying that we might get some decisions wrong here but it's good faith without agenda. And if you could help us by remembering that you're talking to a human being on the other side of the post who is probably chilling on their phone or PC or whatever and not call each other murderers or genocidal maniacs or fascists or whatever then that would be really helpful.

They think they're right.
 
Hertzblue said:
Are you seriously worried about the US using a nuclear weapon ? They have used their hegemony to keep the world at relative peace ( not without incident) since the last world war.
The Iranians on the other hand are bent on destroying the state of Israel, have been trying to make a nuclear weapon and after 30 years there is Avery reason to believe they are now close to doing so. The IAEA have now reported that Iran is in breach of its non proliferation agreements . Israel have acted.
I would imagine the vast majority of us are " not alright" with Iran having nuclear weapons but do you propose to do about it ?, what other cause of action is there to stop them ?
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To try and answer your first question I'll jump to your last one. What to do, what other course of action can be taken? Putting aside hybrid activities like cyber interventions that may potentially be less escalatory, the obvious question to ask is whether all diplomatic solutions have been exhausted.

The 2015 JCPOA was far from perfect but it was a potential opportunity but then in 2018 Trump pulled the US out and fatally undermined it. Were the US reasons legitimate? Was it the result of a lack of understanding from an administration for whom everything is a zero sum game? Was it some more malevolent reason? I'm not claiming any expertise so I don't know; but what I do know is that plenty of other parties to the agreement thought it worth persisting and it suggested a worrying lack of temperance or interest in diplomacy on the part of the US. Under the JCPOA Iran's breakout time was about a year, it's now at 10 days I think.

So back to your original question. No I don't think it's likely that the US are going to be firing nukes next Tuesday but I do think they have become an increasingly destabilising force in the world. Parking how begnin or otherwise US hegemony has historically been, because that's a whole different kettle of fish, I think in the last decade the US has become a much more volatile and worrying nation. The seeds had been there for some decades but we are now seeing the 'fruits'. Circling back round to our original discussion point, I think part of that change is the increased influence of Evangelical Christianity on the USA government and particularly a brand of EC that has a significant eschatological focus around Israel. There are absolutely players in the US government who hold end days religious views that are impacting middle eastern policy decisions in exactly the same way members of the Iranian administration do.

If in crude terms Risk = Probability x Impact , then as the highest impact player an increase in the volatility of the US government represents the largest threat escalation. That's what I think is happening and if it's not all down to religious head bangers then they really aren't helping especially when it comes to ME policy.
 
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Don Karleone said:
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As I just said to Dax in the Trump thread, I couldn’t be arsed clicking on anything coming from Trump or his regime in America or from the Israeli government or IDF until a free press is allowed into both regimes.

I don’t trust a word coming from either regime. I’ll get my news elsewhere.
 
The blue phantom said:
99% of posters are calling the Israeli regime/Idf Murderers and Genocidal maniacs. Surely that's allowed?
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I don't care who and what you call countries or regimes or whatever. I care what you call other posters. If you say "well Israel is a genocidal state" then I don't think that's exactly the best way to try and talk about the issue in a good engaging way.

But when you say "anyone who supports Israel is a genocidal maniac" then that's an issue, and clearly vice versa. Don't personalise arguments wherever possible. And as I said, we're going to get this wrong mod wise because it's contentious and we press buttons quicker than we think for the most part.

Again you're not talking to User#262. You're talking to Dave. He's got 2 kids on the younger side. He loves a cheeky 3pm Friday pint in the local. Works away all week. Spends a fortune on Xmas to his kids, has to work extras in Jan and Feb to pay it off. His old man took him Maine Road as a nipper, wrapped in his Blue scarf.

That's who you're talking too. Dave is not genocidal, he's just passionate. Maybe he doesn't know the extent you do but whatever. He thinks what he thinks.

It would be very helpful if you spoke to other posters like you're talking to Dave.
 
robbieh said:
I copied and pasted that one, so unlike the comma earlier, I plead not guilty. Although I should have read it first.
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You weren’t ‘guilty’ on either occasion, mate.

First time I think was important to point out because I think what you had posted could have misrepresented what you were trying to convey.

This time was just a piss take. Not remotely arsed how you spell defence/defense.

As long as you don’t ever say ‘license’ then we’ll be fine!
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
You weren’t ‘guilty’ on either occasion, mate.

First time I think was important to point out because I think what you had posted could have misrepresented what you were trying to convey.

This time was just a piss take. Not remotely arsed how you spell defence/defense.

As long as you don’t ever say ‘license’ then we’ll be fine!
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Why does one insence you and the udder doesn’t.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Here’s a question:

Which scenario would be best for the Middle East?

Meaningful regime change in Israel or Iran?

I honestly can’t pick. Lots of variables. In the short term you’d have to say Israel, but long term I’m not so sure.

Both vile regimes btw. Both full of horrible cunts.
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Best result is that both sides kill off each others arsehole leaders and fanatics and leaves the normal suffering public to live long peaceful lives.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
You weren’t ‘guilty’ on either occasion, mate.

First time I think was important to point out because I think what you had posted could have misrepresented what you were trying to convey.

This time was just a piss take. Not remotely arsed how you spell defence/defense.

As long as you don’t ever say ‘license’ then we’ll be fine!
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I've done the math on his post and tbf it's statistically a rarity.
 
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