Let's hope so, the vast majority of them don't want anything to do with their medieval, murderous dictatorship, where any dissent sees you swinging from a crane.
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Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)
- Thread starter The blue phantom
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bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
what I don't get is are they lying or do they believe what they are saying?
Have you got plans for Saudi too?Let's hope so, the vast majority of them don't want anything to do with their medieval, murderous dictatorship, where any dissent sees you swinging from a crane.
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
Have you got plans for Saudi too?
people's obsessions with middle eastern regimes are weird. Yes they are led by religious zealots who are duplicitous and seem to care little about their own peoples lot. But try looking closer to home. The US is run by religious zealots and the cuts planned by the current regime to things like medicaid and veterans support is that any different? Look here - 14 years of austerity - the Govts actions in Covid are being exposed in an enquiry - Grenfell seems to have changed nothing and the current Govts approach to welfare provision - have they ever had our best interests in mind?
I don't believe any politicians, but then Ayatollah is also a spiritual leader, and I don't think he can reverse his fatwa before his own people.I’ve got a bridge for sale that I think you should look at.
There was a deal in place between Iran and the world powers, and Trump unilaterally withdrew from the JCPOA during his last term. It wasn't because Iran had violated any of the terms in the deal, but Netanyahu wasn't happy with the ballistic missile programme. Therein is the problem, Israel and their Western backers can never be satisfied with the current Iranian regime even if they're willing to work out a deal. If not the nuclear enrichment, then the ballistic missiles will be an issue, if not that then the human rights issue, if not then the involvement of religion in the state. The list goes until a puppet like the Jordanian King is installed.
I've no interests in Iran and have Syrian colleagues who absolutely detests them, but I don't want Iran to be another Iraq, Libya and Syria.
Blue and true
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The creation of Israel was a political decision, but I would argue that decision derived from words in Judaic scripture. The notion of a Jewish homeland predates any modern political body. Two branches of the same tree, but religion is the taproot. Another lesson in keeping religion and politics completely separate.it’s predicated on religion but the state of Israel (which is what we are talking about) was created after WW2 for political reasons, not religious ones. Because Jewish people had been persecuted in Europe for centuries, ending in the holocaust, it was felt that this sustained wrong had to be made right. Unfortunately the wider implications of this weren’t fully thought through. And here we are. A fucking mess.
Israel came about because of a political decision. And that is why I view Zionism as a creature of politics. Understand that everyone isn’t going to agree with that. It’s a subjective thing, I guess.
And genuinely happy to hear any counter arguments. Except from @Vic
What I won't dispute is that this is a sorry fucking mess.
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The blue phantom
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what I don't get is are they lying or do they believe what they are saying?
Suprised at Sky News for telling the truth. Could be curtains for her.
Can you imagine getting up everyday and just bullshiting & spreading constant propaganda like these IDF wank stains. It must be indoctrinated in them to lie with impunity.
M18CTID
Well-Known Member
It's a shame that they couldn't have been more accurate when targeting Hamas in Gaza, given the utterly disproportionate number of innocent Palestinians who have been killed.Possibly. If you were one of the senior people left, you would be looking over your shoulder for the rest of your life even if you survive this.
Incredible accuracy and intel if no one is involved from the Iranian side!
Blue and true
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They were perfectly accurate. They killed those women and children intentionally.It's a shame that they couldn't have been more accurate when targeting Hamas in Gaza, given the utterly disproportionate number of innocent Palestinians who have been killed.
Why the deflection? If this conflict results in the Persians being able to lead normal lives that's a good thing. You do realise that the majority of the Arab world detests the Palestinians and want nothing to do with them, yet here you are.Have you got plans for Saudi too?
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
Like I said, I understand that others will disagree, and why, but I view it as political.The creation of Israel was a political decision, but I would argue that decision derived from words in Judaic scripture. The notion of a Jewish homeland predates any modern political body. Two branches of the same tree, but religion is the taproot. Another lesson in keeping religion and politics completely separate.
What I won't dispute is that this is a sorry fucking mess.
The blue phantom
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You do realise that the majority of the Arab world detests the Palestinians and want nothing to do with them, yet here you are.
Do the Israeli goverment write your post.
Now show me where the majority of the Arab world detest Palestinians?
Do the Israeli goverment write your post.
Now show me where the majority of the Arab world detest Palestinians?
It's all part of the propaganda to justify genocide. Everyone detests Palestinians, so it is fine to exterminate them. People in Iran cannot lead normal lives, so attacking them and forcing a regime change is fine (except that it didn't work out in Iraq, Libya, Syria or even Afghanistan). It's not that they care about the people either.
The Palestinians are the only people I have unreserved sympathy for.Why the deflection? If this conflict results in the Persians being able to lead normal lives that's a good thing. You do realise that the majority of the Arab world detests the Palestinians and want nothing to do with them, yet here you are.
The reason the Arab world detests the Palestinians, and by the way it's the monarchs not the people, is because their plight is a constant reminder that they have sold the Palestinians down the river. In addition Israel's expulsion of millions has resulted in large Palestinian populations in Lebanon, Jordan, Syria. And as we know from our own gammons, foreigners are not universally liked
You are only interested in the removal of the Iranian leadership because of your support for Israel.
You don't care about the brutal Saudi regime because they are essentially not a threat to the Zionists.
Not sure on that. Both sides (Israelis and Palestinians) 'feel' that the land is their spiritual home? This 'feeling' supercedes the western concepts of borders, rules, laws etc. I don't therefore think you can take the religious aspect out of it. It's basically a modern day version of the Crusades where the Holy City of Jerusalem is still being fought over. If there is a God he will be banging his head on his desk in utter despair. Ultimately I think it's the culture wars on steroids, Leaver/Remainer, Right/Left, Tory/Labour, Black/White, Jew/Arab etc etc. We are just not a tolerant species.it’s predicated on religion but the state of Israel (which is what we are talking about) was created after WW2 for political reasons, not religious ones. Because Jewish people had been persecuted in Europe for centuries, ending in the holocaust, it was felt that this sustained wrong had to be made right. Unfortunately the wider implications of this weren’t fully thought through. And here we are. A fucking mess.
Israel came about because of a political decision. And that is why I view Zionism as a creature of politics. Understand that everyone isn’t going to agree with that. It’s a subjective thing, I guess.
And genuinely happy to hear any counter arguments. Except from @Vic
I
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inbetween
Guest
I don't think that people understand that this whole problem is geopolitical and not specific to the Palestinian issue. The Palestinians are just caught up in the middle of what is a larger scale geopolitical war. Any Arab country could open their borders to for example provide sanctuary but they won't because of the geopolitical impact.Why the deflection? If this conflict results in the Persians being able to lead normal lives that's a good thing. You do realise that the majority of the Arab world detests the Palestinians and want nothing to do with them, yet here you are.
The second mistake that people make is on morals. They'll decry the morals of what Israel is doing but they're not quite so committed to morality on other issues. In recent days I've seen people defend Iran on here which is complete lunacy given the historic actions of the Iranian regime, the moral argument is just completely lost there.
At least 30% of the Iranian population is for example living in outright poverty whilst its regime attempts to acquire nuclear weapons, is arming proxies and is firing ballistic missiles at a country 1,000 miles away. This is a country that shoots protesters and executes dissidents, Iran has executed over 300 people just this year alone including several within the political opposition. And people on here frame talk of genocide and international law? Do me a favour.
Nobody can really argue on this from some superior morality position. If somebody opposes Israel then they have to also oppose Iran otherwise there is no moral position. The only difference between the likes of Hamas, Iran, Hezbollah and Israel is just the simple fact that only one of these has laser guided bombs and F-35's.
Israel would not exist today if these other actors acquired similar weaponry. The technological difference is made pretty clear by the fact that Iran can only attack Israel with ballistic missiles fired from Iran whereas Israel is literally operating within Iran unopposed.
If after WW1 the British had acted more sensibly and created a one state solution where Moslem, Jew and Arab lived under equal rights in something approaching the setup in Lebanon, do you really think the Middle East would have been the site of so much violence?I don't think that people understand that this whole problem is geopolitical and not specific to the Palestinian issue. The Palestinians are just caught up in the middle of what is a larger scale geopolitical war. Any Arab country could open their borders to for example provide sanctuary but they won't because of the geopolitical impact.
The second mistake that people make is on morals. They'll decry the morals of what Israel is doing but they're not quite so committed to morality on other issues. In recent days I've seen people defend Iran on here which is complete lunacy given the historic actions of the Iranian regime, the moral argument is just completely lost there.
At least 30% of the Iranian population is for example living in outright poverty whilst its regime attempts to acquire nuclear weapons, is arming proxies and is firing ballistic missiles at a country 1,000 miles away. This is a country that shoots protesters and executes dissidents, Iran has executed over 300 people just this year alone including several within the political opposition. And people on here frame talk of genocide and international law? Do me a favour.
Nobody can really argue on this from some superior morality position. If somebody opposes Israel then they have to also oppose Iran otherwise there is no moral position. The only difference between the likes of Hamas, Iran, Hezbollah and Israel is just the simple fact that only one of these has laser guided bombs and F-35's.
Israel would not exist today if these other actors acquired similar weaponry. The technological difference is made pretty clear by the fact that Iran can only attack Israel with ballistic missiles fired from Iran whereas Israel is literally operating within Iran unopposed.
Yes the Brits and US would have invaded the area from time to time, after all there's oil in them there hills.
But it was the establishment of a foreign ultra aggressive, heavily armed colony in the area that has led to the unprecedented level of instability.
Gremlin
Well-Known Member
There was a Spitting Image sketch back in the day which had the problem being looked at in the manner of a investigation by Roger Cook. The jews were saying 'God promised us this land, it is here in the scriptures' and Palestinians saying much the same thing. It then culminated in Roger Cook cornering God (complete with trilby and dark glasses in the manner of Arthur Daly) in a car park saying 'you've promised this land to two different groups of people'.Not sure on that. Both sides (Israelis and Palestinians) 'feel' that the land is their spiritual home? This 'feeling' supercedes the western concepts of borders, rules, laws etc. I don't therefore think you can take the religious aspect out of it. It's basically a modern day version of the Crusades where the Holy City of Jerusalem is still being fought over. If there is a God he will be banging his head on his desk in utter despair. Ultimately I think it's the culture wars on steroids, Leaver/Remainer, Right/Left, Tory/Labour, Black/White, Jew/Arab etc etc. We are just not a tolerant species.
You may or may not have found the sketch funny but it did, to me anyway, sort of encapsulate the situation (though obviously it is far more nuanced than that).
Majority of the Arab world detest Israel, yet here you are.Why the deflection? If this conflict results in the Persians being able to lead normal lives that's a good thing. You do realise that the majority of the Arab world detests the Palestinians and want nothing to do with them, yet here you are.
mancity2012_eamo
Well-Known Member
A bit of both, is the way I see it. You can call all of it political if you so choose, but when political decisions are based on biblical teachings whether you’re Christian or Jewish, I think the lines are already blurred.Like I said, I understand that others will disagree, and why, but I view it as political.
We are talking Zionism here. It is steeped in 3000+ years of religious dogma.
Even go back to the Balfour declaration of 1917. Balfour has been accused by some of being a Christian Evangelist himself. I would say no, not in the traditional sense but he was a Christian Zionist who incidentally issued the 1905 Alien Act which stopped Eastern Europeans (Jewish) who were suffering increasing persecution from coming to Britain.
He didn’t want them coming to the UK. He supported sending them to Palestine to give them a homeland there. Someone else’s problem?
It’s always been political but Zionism is religious.