The Labour Government

Craig said:
Haha exactly. That racist twat will just ever go which way the winds blowing. Even they wouldn’t really want immigration to completely stop anyway despite their constant posturing. Where would they go then if people realised that some poor sod on a boat isn’t the main or only reason this country is struggling?

They wouldn’t like it the public then started asking for their rich backers to be taxed heavier on their assets to stop inequality growing at such a rapid rate in the country.
Click to expand...

I think someone pointed out on the Rwanda thread that they're pivoting to HMOs, over hotels and boats. The "advantage" being that anyone non-white who moves into a HMO becomes a target.
 
BobKowalski said:
The Greek economy is expected to grow by 2.3% in 2025. We could worse than be Greece. And we tried a Reform style Govt with the Liz Truss budget. It didn’t end well.

Any other bright ideas other than sacking everyone and setting fire to everything? Perhaps you could go full Trump and put huge tariffs on imports and deny people medical care until they work a State proscribed number of hours in the fields similar to Mao Tse Tung and Pol Pot who also tried this approach. Have you gone full Communist, comrade?
Click to expand...

Reform don’t have much of a credible plan at least yet, but that’s unlikely to be much of a barrier with enough of the voting public when you offer simple “solutions” (aka unworkable) to complex problems.

Social media is the scourge of society as well. I’m a history fan and something popped up on my feed that I read as it started off talking about history, as I got to the bottom it was plainly a post about “taking back Britain from the foreigners” but because i’d spent a few moments reading it my feed became inundated with so much racist shit you’d think it was normal/ mainstream views. It’s a nightmare.
 
M18CTID said:
If that's true then it's pretty mad really. I'm in no way disputing that this person is entitled to apply for those benefits and is clearly not one would class as a benefit cheat, but as you say it propably needs tapering off somewhere. Those child care costs are ridiculous as well.

The whole benefits system is clearly very complex and does need an overhaul but it needs to be done without harming those who genuinely need help. I've got my own criticisms of it due to my other half and the 2 occasions she's applied for PIP. The first time was in the wake of a failed operation at Tameside hospital in 2010. This was supposed to be a very simple procedure but it left her with chronic abdominal pain and she's now on medication for it for the rest of her life. She lost her job at Asda a couple of years later due to not being able to go in some days when there were flare ups. She applied for PIP shortly after losing her job and she got knocked back because they believed she was still mobile enough to carry out everyday tasks, etc. There was no consideration that her condition was not really visible from the outside.

10 years afer that fuck-up, she suffered a brain haemorrhage and spent 9 days in Salford Royal. It happened while she was driving as well. I couldn't go to see her as it was during Covid. Anyway, she's suffering the effects of it to this day and will do for the rest of her life - fatigue, headaches, tinnitus, etc. So she was advised by one doctor to apply for PIP. I thought surely this time she'll be successful but no, how wrong I was. It was a phone consultation and the girl was talking to her like she was my other half's best mate. And because she told her that she's still fit enough to get out of the house on good days, they knocked her back. Apparently, because she can sometimes get out to attend a Tai Chi session then she's not entitled to it. I did tell her afterwards that she shouldn't have mentioned the Tai Chi as they'll look for any excuse not to award it but from what I could gather, even if she can get up and make a brew then that goes against her as well. The impression I got was that while she should be entitled to PIP, she'd only have a chance of getting it if she told them what things are like on her worst days and not on her better days.

Not only that, she's not entitled to any other benefits either apart from the £80 a week carer's allowance she gets for her dad. The reason that she's not entitled to anything else is because she lives with me and as I work full-time, my wages are supposed to cover us both. I wouldn't mind but while I'm on a reasonable wage, I'm still a basic rate taxpayer and since she's been unable to work since 2012, it's plunged me thousands of pounds into debt in order to keep a roof over our heads.
Click to expand...
To me this is where the system is seriously messed up. The treatment of income tax on a per person basis, but benefits as a household. Up to a certain level level of income benefits should be as individuals, over a certain threshold benefits should then be tapered in the same way child benefit is. If not it leads to the perverse situation where 2 people on benefits in a household can be better off than where you have one of them working full time and in a low paying role.
 
metalblue said:
I’m sorry to read all of that mate. Been a bloody nightmare for you all. She was punished for being honest, what’s the alternative? Just tell them what they need to hear and people then get accused of playing the system. It’s a catch 22. In your case the trouble is now she’s told them it’s on file so you can’t go back unless things deteriorate. I know @stoneblue had a nightmare getting it with his missus, seems for somethings you have to fight tooth and nail and for others they can’t throw enough money at you. It does need a proper reboot.

Have you consulted a medical negligence law firm at all? If not might be worth having a chat with one and see what they say. You shouldn’t be up to your eyeballs in it mate because of someone else’s fuck up.
Click to expand...
Cheers mate - I know we have our differences on these threads at times but I think we're in agreement that the system is messed up in lots of ways.

I seem to recall that she did some tentative enquiries regarding medical negligence. It was so long ago that I can't remember the full details but I think it wasn't worth pursuing as they (the hospital) were denying all responsibility. She might've gotten somewhere if she'd pursued it thoroughly but over time we've just put up with the situation because as long as I'm able to work, we can get by one way or another despite the debt. If I wasn't able to work for any period of time over the past 12 years then that would've been a different matter and things would've gone south pretty quickly with repossession of the house coming into the equation if I was unable to make the mortgage payments. As it happens, my dad's inheritance came through the other week and that's allowed me to clear my debts, get myself back on an even keel and put the rest into savings but we shouldn't really be having to rely on things like that.
 
stonerblue said:
That's shit mate, in lots of ways.
You're right about the application process though, always use the 'worst day' symptoms when filling the forms in. I know they are a real pain but i'd urge you to try again with a claim.
Click to expand...
Cheers mate. It's worth considering but I'm not sure she's got the stomach to go through putting in another claim! She was reluctant to do it after the brain haemorrhage as she felt from the previous time that it's like being put on trial and when the knock back came that just hit her confidence further.
 
M18CTID said:
Cheers mate - I know we have our differences on these threads at times but I think we're in agreement that the system is messed up in lots of ways.

I seem to recall that she did some tentative enquiries regarding medical negligence. It was so long ago that I can't remember the full details but I think it wasn't worth pursuing as they (the hospital) were denying all responsibility. She might've gotten somewhere if she'd pursued it thoroughly but over time we've just put up with the situation because as long as I'm able to work, we can get by one way or another despite the debt. If I wasn't able to work for any period of time over the past 12 years then that would've been a different matter and things would've gone south pretty quickly. As it happens, my dad's inheritance came through the other week and that's allowed me to clear my debts, get myself back on an even keel and put the rest into savings but we shouldn't really be having to rely on things like that.
Click to expand...

Sorry for your loss with your dad mate. They’ll never admit anything but times past so not sure it could be revisited now even if you wanted to, it’s not easy living with pain etc so all respect to you both mate.

Sometimes we lose track of the person behind the post. I think our differences (and with most posters on here) are largely down to how we get there, not where we go.

Take care blue.
 
metalblue said:
Sorry for your loss with your dad mate. They’ll never admit anything but times past so not sure it could be revisited now even if you wanted to, it’s not easy living with pain etc so all respect to you both mate.

Sometimes we lose track of the person behind the post. I think our differences (and with most posters on here) are largely down to how we get there, not where we go.

Take care blue.
Click to expand...
Cheers mate. We're as fine as can be to be honest, and there are many more people in worse situations than us. You hear of amputees being refused PIP which is utterly staggering really.
 
M18CTID said:
Cheers mate. It's worth considering but I'm not sure she's got the stomach to go through putting in another claim! She was reluctant to do it after the brain haemorrhage as she felt from the previous time that it's like being put on trial and when the knock back came that just hit her confidence further.
Click to expand...

Just to second what @stonerblue said, it's important to share the worst day. Telling what you can't do, not what you can. It's also worth getting help from Citizens Advice. It's been a while since I worked there, but we used to fill in the forms, and do reviews and appeals all the time.

One caveat though - I haven't read all your messages in this thread, but if I've understood correctly, and she's getting Carer's Allowance, then, while it's not impossible to get PIP at the same time, it obviously makes it trickier. Definitely worth getting advice to make sure the claims don't contradict each other.
 
M18CTID said:
Cheers mate. It's worth considering but I'm not sure she's got the stomach to go through putting in another claim! She was reluctant to do it after the brain haemorrhage as she felt from the previous time that it's like being put on trial and when the knock back came that just hit her confidence further.
Click to expand...
yep, same with my mrs
 
bluenova said:
Just to second what @stonerblue said, it's important to share the worst day. Telling what you can't do, not what you can. It's also worth getting help from Citizens Advice. It's been a while since I worked there, but we used to fill in the forms, and do reviews and appeals all the time.

One caveat though - I haven't read all your messages in this thread, but if I've understood correctly, and she's getting Carer's Allowance, then, while it's not impossible to get PIP at the same time, it obviously makes it trickier. Definitely worth getting advice to make sure the claims don't contradict each other.
Click to expand...


+1 for the CAB recommendation. Brilliant organisation.
 
metalblue said:
Reform don’t have much of a credible plan at least yet, but that’s unlikely to be much of a barrier with enough of the voting public when you offer simple “solutions” (aka unworkable) to complex problems.

Social media is the scourge of society as well. I’m a history fan and something popped up on my feed that I read as it started off talking about history, as I got to the bottom it was plainly a post about “taking back Britain from the foreigners” but because i’d spent a few moments reading it my feed became inundated with so much racist shit you’d think it was normal/ mainstream views. It’s a nightmare.
Click to expand...

The Reform plan is fairly straightforward. It’s isolationism. Creating a closed economy that requires minimal outside links. It’s not dissimilar to old style Labour thinking with British jobs for British people and a planned economy. This is the current Republican/Trump model. Tariffs to reduce imports and control of the economy in the hands of few via the State. It is easier to control a people if they are isolated from the outside and kept in check by imposing qualifying criteria to access health care, education etc. Whether this works in the US is arguable, but isolationism does seem to be the driving force behind current policy and has a long history in the US

You also create a division within the country. The more prosperous Cities are crime ridden hellholes especially if run by ‘liberals’. In the UK, London is the target. It’s wealthy, diverse and run by an ‘outsider’ who is Muslim. London thus becomes Khan’s immigrant ghetto with Muslim law and crime infested neighbourhoods.

Farage and Reform just need a target and something to ‘leave’ which will make everything ‘all right’ again. EU, ECHR, NATO, UN. There will always be some outside organisation that is responsible for all our ills. Green policies will be another battleground. It involves change, different ways of thinking and utilisation of resources and Reform voters hate and are suspicious of change. And science and medicine.

There is, and I’ve touched upon this before, an intellectual incoherence on the Right of politics. They will vote for Johnson (fuck business) and champion business. Johnson wanted a high wage economy and a levelling up of the UK via the State. Truss wanted a lean economy with minimal State involvement and protections. And those on the Right will look at these two philosophies and nod along in agreement to both without blinking. Which is why arguing with these people is pointless. They are ‘follow the leader’ types. They think what their leader thinks, no matter how contradictory.
 
BobKowalski said:
The Reform plan is fairly straightforward. It’s isolationism. Creating a closed economy that requires minimal outside links. It’s not dissimilar to old style Labour thinking with British jobs for British people and a planned economy. This is the current Republican/Trump model. Tariffs to reduce imports and control of the economy in the hands of few via the State. It is easier to control a people if they are isolated from the outside and kept in check by imposing qualifying criteria to access health care, education etc. Whether this works in the US is arguable, but isolationism does seem to be the driving force behind current policy and has a long history in the US

You also create a division within the country. The more prosperous Cities are crime ridden hellholes especially if run by ‘liberals’. In the UK, London is the target. It’s wealthy, diverse and run by an ‘outsider’ who is Muslim. London thus becomes Khan’s immigrant ghetto with Muslim law and crime infested neighbourhoods.

Farage and Reform just need a target and something to ‘leave’ which will make everything ‘all right’ again. EU, ECHR, NATO, UN. There will always be some outside organisation that is responsible for all our ills. Green policies will be another battleground. It involves change, different ways of thinking and utilisation of resources and Reform voters hate and are suspicious of change. And science and medicine.

There is, and I’ve touched upon this before, an intellectual incoherence on the Right of politics. They will vote for Johnson (fuck business) and champion business. Johnson wanted a high wage economy and a levelling up of the UK via the State. Truss wanted a lean economy with minimal State involvement and protections. And those on the Right will look at these two philosophies and nod along in agreement to both without blinking. Which is why arguing with these people is pointless. They are ‘follow the leader’ types. They think what their leader thinks, no matter how contradictory.
Click to expand...
Every government needs a 'common enemy' to unite the masses.
 
M18CTID said:
No need to apologise - in hindsight, I think it was a fair thing to say but perhaps could've been conveyed a bit more diplomatically! In any case, I know you through the PMs we've had regarding investment ideas.

I'm surprised you've lurched so far the other way regarding Brexit though. I've gone the opposite way to you but then again, I was never a staunch Brexiter so it hasn't taken much for me to change my mind. I posted on the Brexit thread that I see no upsides to leaving but I do see a whole load of extra hassle in my job as I'm sure millions of others do. There's a lot more work we have to do since we left when exporting to our EU customers.

That said, we're out now so we just have to get on with it but I do think greater integration with our biggest trading partner is the way to go. Even Farage was suggesting a Norway-type deal at one point before he started going down the "Hard Brexit" route.
Click to expand...
Closer integration would be great from a trading point of view, if it came with no strings attached. But sadly it doesn't.

I'd be hugely in favour of "Singapore" off the coast of Europe, but the EU won't allow it. In order to have full access to their market, they insist upon (not unreasonably, btw) close alignment in laws, regulations, standards, taxes and human rights. So we either stay as EU members by proxy - but without voting rights - or accept that we cannot have closer integration.

The latter is where my head is at. The Eurozone is a failure. It's seen pitiful growth rates for 30 years and has been on a steady decline compared to more dynamic and less regulated economies. It is incredible to think that companies operating in a notionally free and democratic EU have to deal with more regulation and state interference than those in China. And the result is plain to see. Standards of living are getting worse, relative to others, year upon year upon year.

If we are to be a free and prosperous country once again, leveraging the world of talent we have in our high tech companies and leading universities, we did to ditch the EU and do our own thing.

We can unburden our businesses of regulation, lower their taxes, and even provide subsidies and support where needed (not allowed by the EU), control our borders, set our own laws. We cannot do that with "closer integration with the EU".
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Voting in Reform is voting in Farage, the guy that bought us Brexit through lies and is the reason for a lot with what you are angry about - especially the increase in migration.
Click to expand...
Sorry? How would being in the EU with completely free movement with no ability to even moderate it, in any way help us control migration???

What a bizarre perspective you have.

People are very understandably concerned about our country's ability to accommodate the millions of people coming in. Brexit gives us the opportunity to control it and people are rightly frustrated that we have failed to do so. Had we not left, we'd have no ability.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Closer integration would be great from a trading point of view, if it came with no strings attached. But sadly it doesn't.

I'd be hugely in favour of "Singapore" off the coast of Europe, but the EU won't allow it. In order to have full access to their market, they insist upon (not unreasonably, btw) close alignment in laws, regulations, standards, taxes and human rights. So we either stay as EU members by proxy - but without voting rights - or accept that we cannot have closer integration.

The latter is where my head is at. The Eurozone is a failure. It's seen pitiful growth rates for 30 years and has been on a steady decline compared to more dynamic and less regulated economies. It is incredible to think that companies operating in a notionally free and democratic EU have to deal with more regulation and state interference than those in China. And the result is plain to see. Standards of living are getting worse, relative to others, year upon year upon year.

If we are to be a free and prosperous country once again, leveraging the world of talent we have in our high tech companies and leading universities, we did to ditch the EU and do our own thing.

We can unburden our businesses of regulation, lower their taxes, and even provide subsidies and support where needed (not allowed by the EU), control our borders, set our own laws. We cannot do that with "closer integration with the EU".
Click to expand...

Singapore is a mixed market economy and highly regulated in various sectors like finance. It has a strong State capitalism model with the Govt controlling shares in many government-linked companies and directs investment through sovereign wealth funds. The State has also invested heavily in infrastructure.

So, you want the State to be ‘reduced’ and also want to model ourselves on a country with an aggressive State capitalism sector and strong regulation?
 
BobKowalski said:
The Reform plan is fairly straightforward. It’s isolationism. Creating a closed economy that requires minimal outside links. It’s not dissimilar to old style Labour thinking with British jobs for British people and a planned economy. This is the current Republican/Trump model. Tariffs to reduce imports and control of the economy in the hands of few via the State. It is easier to control a people if they are isolated from the outside and kept in check by imposing qualifying criteria to access health care, education etc. Whether this works in the US is arguable, but isolationism does seem to be the driving force behind current policy and has a long history in the US

You also create a division within the country. The more prosperous Cities are crime ridden hellholes especially if run by ‘liberals’. In the UK, London is the target. It’s wealthy, diverse and run by an ‘outsider’ who is Muslim. London thus becomes Khan’s immigrant ghetto with Muslim law and crime infested neighbourhoods.

Farage and Reform just need a target and something to ‘leave’ which will make everything ‘all right’ again. EU, ECHR, NATO, UN. There will always be some outside organisation that is responsible for all our ills. Green policies will be another battleground. It involves change, different ways of thinking and utilisation of resources and Reform voters hate and are suspicious of change. And science and medicine.

There is, and I’ve touched upon this before, an intellectual incoherence on the Right of politics. They will vote for Johnson (fuck business) and champion business. Johnson wanted a high wage economy and a levelling up of the UK via the State. Truss wanted a lean economy with minimal State involvement and protections. And those on the Right will look at these two philosophies and nod along in agreement to both without blinking. Which is why arguing with these people is pointless. They are ‘follow the leader’ types. They think what their leader thinks, no matter how contradictory.
Click to expand...

100% that the US is on the isolationist path. They can get away with it to an extent, in time at least. The UK simply can’t. Farage is a fully paid up flag waving patriot, loves all things British, dislikes (or indifferent to) all things not British however can’t really define what is and isn’t British but probably craves the country as it was during our golden era (as defined by him). A capital C conservative.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top