Palestine Action

[I'm With Stupid]

I think peaceful protest is allowed. However, unpeaceful protest is not allowed. That is the line in the sand that our democracy has drawn. How difficult is that to understand?

No, the line our democracy has chosen to draw is that certain unpeaceful protest isn't just illegal, it's terrorism. Which also means that peaceful protest about that decision and in favour of the proscribed group by those who disagree with it is now also illegal. So no, it's not as simple as you try to portray. It's not illegal to go outside a courtroom and hold up a sign supporting a convicted murderer or rapist, but if you hold up a sign supporting a group of people who damaged a plane with no-one in it, you can be arrested on terrorism offences.

 

[The blue phantom]

So what are you doing to stop the genocide?

He agrees with it. Defender of the IDF

 

[Palerider]

No, the line our democracy has chosen to draw is that certain unpeaceful protest isn't just illegal, it's terrorism. Which also means that peaceful protest about that decision and in favour of the proscribed group by those who disagree with it is now also illegal. So no, it's not as simple as you try to portray. It's not illegal to go outside a courtroom and hold up a sign supporting a convicted murderer or rapist, but if you hold up a sign supporting a group of people who damaged a plane with no-one in it, you can be arrested on terrorism offences.

You are not being honest. They did not just damage a plane they damaged a military plane that is used to defend the country. That is close to the act of a traitor. They put their own political aims above the defence of the country. People are sick to death of these idiots who obviously hate their own country and many/most of it's inhabitants. Granted, it's mild terrorism, there was no intent to kill, but they should have had the brains to realise that attacking military equipment would not be taken lightly by any government. On your holding signs point, surely. surely you can hold a sign up supporting Palestine without specyfying this bunch of idiots? i.e no one is stopping you holding up pro Palestine/Israel signs to your hearts content. Just do it peacefully.

 

[i kne albert davy]

Probs get a couple of smart child killer bombs and still have enough to cut off water supplies and food for 6 months for that amount.

And that’s got what to do with us ?

 

[Vic]

You are not being honest. They did not just damage a plane they damaged a military plane that is used to defend the country. That is close to the act of a traitor. They put their own political aims above the defence of the country. People are sick to death of these idiots who obviously hate their own country and many/most of it's inhabitants. Granted, it's mild terrorism, there was no intent to kill, but they should have had the brains to realise that attacking military equipment would not be taken lightly by any government. On your holding signs point, surely. surely you can hold a sign up supporting Palestine without specyfying this bunch of idiots? i.e no one is stopping you holding up pro Palestine/Israel signs to your hearts content. Just do it peacefully.

And will that stop the genocide?

 

[bluethrunthru]

From what I have seen people are being arrested for wearing T-shirts or waving placards that feature the words Palestine and action no matter what order they appear in.

So "I support Palestine Action is arrestable."

A placard saying - " Many deaths in Palestine. We need action to stop it" is also arrestable but the proscribed group are Palestine Action. I am confused by the application of this stupid proscription.

 

[Vic]

From what I have seen people are being arrested for wearing T-shirts or waving placards that feature the words Palestine and action no matter what order they appear in.

So "I support Palestine Action is arrestable."

A placard saying - " Many deaths in Palestine. We need action to stop it" is also arrestable but the proscribed group are Palestine Action. I am confused by the application of this stupid proscription.

How about

I don't support​

PALESTINE ACTION​

 

[bluethrunthru]

How about

I don't support​

PALESTINE ACTION​

see you on D Wing but NOT in the showers !!

Thing with it is like ALL knee jerk laws this will be a fucking bonanza for lawyers and compensation claims for wrongful arrest

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

And will that stop the genocide?

Genocide you say: https://www.wsj.com/opinion/the-u-ns-anti-israel-genocide-purge-c8feef1a

But of course a trainspotter on Bluemoon knows more than the UN Special Advisor on - erm - Genocide.

 

[lloydie]

 

[Vic]

Genocide you say: https://www.wsj.com/opinion/the-u-ns-anti-israel-genocide-purge-c8feef1a

But of course a trainspotter on Bluemoon knows more than the UN Special Advisor on - erm - Genocide.

I wouldn't want this thread to be cluttered with arguing about the definition of genocide. But from that article: Her paper explains that the term “genocide” was coined in 1944 by Polish lawyer Raphael Lemkin to describe massacres of entire ethnic groups with the intention of eliminating them. That definition, Ms. Nderitu has said, includes the Holocaust, the Hutus’ genocide of the Tutsis in Rwanda, the Serbian slaughter of Bosnian Muslims, and may include the ethnic killings now unfolding in Sudan.

But Lemkin had identified behaviour, including displacement and starvation, that could lead to genocide. As Ms Nderitu has written elsewhere, “genocide is so easy to commit because people don’t believe it until after it happens".

Edit: I'm deleting other stuff about this to post it instead on the Middle East thread.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

You are not being honest. They did not just damage a plane they damaged a military plane that is used to defend the country. That is close to the act of a traitor. They put their own political aims above the defence of the country. People are sick to death of these idiots who obviously hate their own country and many/most of it's inhabitants. Granted, it's mild terrorism, there was no intent to kill, but they should have had the brains to realise that attacking military equipment would not be taken lightly by any government. On your holding signs point, surely. surely you can hold a sign up supporting Palestine without specyfying this bunch of idiots? i.e no one is stopping you holding up pro Palestine/Israel signs to your hearts content. Just do it peacefully.

Direct action has been a part of almost every protest movement in history. Civil disobedience. Law breaking. And yes, some go to far into terrorism. That is usually when they put people's lives in danger (actually, not in a theoretical 'they could make an ambulance late' way). At no point has anyone argued that people who engage in such acts shouldn't be punished though. As I said earlier in the thread, there is already scope to punish these people harshly. Sentencing guidelines for this level of criminal damage range from 6 months to 4 years, but the maximum sentence is 10 years.

Not just a terrorist but a traitor now too. Wow. In peacetime. Look, you've made no secret of the fact that you don't like these people or what they stand for, which is exactly what I'm saying. You're happy to see overly draconian punishment against them and anyone supporting them purely on the grounds that you don't like them or their method. Which is exactly the sort of authoritarian attitude I was criticising. So thanks for demonstrating it so succinctly.

But anyway, we've got you down from terrorism to mild terrorism. Maybe soon you'll have reached the correct conclusion of 'not terrorism.'

 

[Vic]

Kent Police (and the Met) need a law lesson.

"Thanks for the advice, officer, but under which section of the Terrorism Act are you making this shit up?"

 

[The blue phantom]

What a pair of thick cunts.

 

[Fordyboy46]

About time the police started to do something about these pricks who manifest themselves in Manchester City centre every Saturday. Kitted out in Hamas regalia they're basically terrorist supporters, absolutely no room for them on the streets

 

[The Fat el Hombre]

So it isn't going to stop with Palestine Action. What a surprise that is

 

[Palerider]

Direct action has been a part of almost every protest movement in history. Civil disobedience. Law breaking. And yes, some go to far into terrorism. That is usually when they put people's lives in danger (actually, not in a theoretical 'they could make an ambulance late' way). At no point has anyone argued that people who engage in such acts shouldn't be punished though. As I said earlier in the thread, there is already scope to punish these people harshly. Sentencing guidelines for this level of criminal damage range from 6 months to 4 years, but the maximum sentence is 10 years.

Not just a terrorist but a traitor now too. Wow. In peacetime. Look, you've made no secret of the fact that you don't like these people or what they stand for, which is exactly what I'm saying. You're happy to see overly draconian punishment against them and anyone supporting them purely on the grounds that you don't like them or their method. Which is exactly the sort of authoritarian attitude I was criticising. So thanks for demonstrating it so succinctly.

But anyway, we've got you down from terrorism to mild terrorism. Maybe soon you'll have reached the correct conclusion of 'not terrorism.'

Surely, I can equally say that you support them because you support their cause? Would you be so supportive if they were right wing protesters? What if they were pro Israel protesters? Would you be on here defending their 'rights'? So, in these cases, where you think they are some virtuous freedom fighters down from heaven for the day and I think, for want of a better phrase, they are just pieces of shit escaped from a sewer, what do we do? Well. what we do is we let the law and the government of the day decide. In this case it went my way. If you remember, I started this conversation mentioning abortion, many including myself are totally against it (except in exceptional circumstances). We have to stand by everyday and accept while what we consider legalised murder is committed. Isn't life a bitch.

From an internet search for "Why are Palestine Action proscribed".

As previously put to Parliament by the Home Secretary on 23rd June, her intention to proscribe Palestine Action after following its orchestration and enaction of aggressive and intimidatory attacks against businesses, institutions and the public, which has crossed the thresholds established in the Terrorism Act 2000

 

[The Fat el Hombre]

Genocide you say: https://www.wsj.com/opinion/the-u-ns-anti-israel-genocide-purge-c8feef1a

But of course a trainspotter on Bluemoon knows more than the UN Special Advisor on - erm - Genocide.

Highly amusing that you're posting this on multiple threads as though it's a real gotcha

Reminder of a quick list of respected organisations, holocaust survivors, historians, scholars, doctors etc who are calling this what it is:

Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

It's not genocide though. It may be shameful, inhumane, even constitute war crimes, but 'genocide' requires clear intent. The tens of thousands who have died are bad enough, even though many of those may well be Hamas members or supporters, but if there was intent it'd be ten times that number...

forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Highly amusing that you're posting this on multiple threads as though it's a real gotcha

Reminder of a quick list of respected organisations, holocaust survivors, historians, scholars, doctors etc who are calling this what it is:

Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

It's not genocide though. It may be shameful, inhumane, even constitute war crimes, but 'genocide' requires clear intent. The tens of thousands who have died are bad enough, even though many of those may well be Hamas members or supporters, but if there was intent it'd be ten times that number...

forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk

There's a list of respected people on here who think you're antisemitic. So they must be right.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Surely, I can equally say that you support them because you support their cause? Would you be so supportive if they were right wing protesters? What if they were pro Israel protesters? Would you be on here defending their 'rights'? So, in these cases, where you think they are some virtuous freedom fighters down from heaven for the day and I think, for want of a better phrase, they are just pieces of shit escaped from a sewer, what do we do? Well. what we do is we let the law and the government of the day decide. In this case it went my way. If you remember, I started this conversation mentioning abortion, many including myself are totally against it (except in exceptional circumstances). We have to stand by everyday and accept while what we consider legalised murder is committed. Isn't life a bitch.

I know you're trying to create this false equivalence between us, but I've said that they should be arrested, charged, and given a stiff punishment, whereas you're arguing that that isn't enough, and you're doing so purely because you disagree with them, like some little wannabe dictator. What I'm against is draconian punishments for people on the grounds of their political beliefs, and the silencing of those with similar beliefs. We've already seen evidence of it happening. People being accosted by the police for having 'similar views' to Palestine Action. That'd be like you being arrested for protesting about abortion because you happen to have the same opinion as someone who bombed an abortion clinic whose group was the proscribed (an actual legitimate reason to label someone a terrorist).