Alan Ball: Did Franny Lee Really Think He Would Bring Trophies?

For all franny lee is a city legend , when it came to business he was an utter ****.

Met him a few times, always genial enough. But my dad had business dealings with him and said hed nick a tenner out your wallet of he could.

He wasnt a great horse trainer either and his treatment of his head stable lad, which i wont repeat , was beyond disgusting and resulted in a tragic end
 
Much as it pains me, I can see why united fans had a field day taking the piss around this time as Lee & Ball were like two comedic characters who had no business running a professional football club, especially one the size of Manchester City.

I'm not saying Horton deserved the boot, but I also don't buy in to belief we were on to bigger and better things with him. Whilst playing entertaining football with some big scalps, his ultimate record reads a 16th & 17th place finish in the Prem, a League Cup QF & a 5-0 hammering at the swamp. He didn't pull up trees anywhere after City either.

The best course of action would of been that next step up again in quality around the time, who could of worked with what we had, whilst adding some steal to it, whether a Martin O'Neill, George Graham or similar.
 
This thread brings into focus two battles: Ball or Benson as worst manager (plenty of other options are available) and Lee or Swales as worst chairman.
I'm going for Ball and Lee simply because their ineptitude eventually led to a fall into the third division whereas other clowns only ever got us as low as 12th (I think) in the second division.
I can understand reasons for fans seeing Benson as worse than Ball; We started the season with three wins under John Bond, were as high as 2nd in November, 9th after beating Norwich 4-1 in January and fell off a cliff after a 4-0 defeat at Brighton in the FA Cup. We only collected 11 points from our final 17 league games, but never had a run of only 2 points from 11 games as we did under Ball.
As for Horton, the story I heard was that a senior figure at the club was at an end of season dinner shortly after our shambolic final game defeat at home v QPR and told a couple of guests Horton was to be sacked in a couple of weeks. This leaked so the sacking was brought forward. And for all the great performances under Horton, the 5-2 v Spurs being the highlight, we also produced some dross, a bad night in a neighbouring borough being the prime example.
 
OnlyOneUweRosler said:
Yes that spine was pretty decent by the standards of the 90s premier league, pound for pound stronger than teams like Southampton, Coventry and other fellow perpetual strugglers.
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There seemed to be no inbetween.

You’d have Keith Curle who was decent but then you’d have a player like Kernaghan who was league one level.
 
The Stockport Iniesta said:
A bit harsh mate, he also had success being a racehorse trainer, trained almost 200 winners.

I'm sure he also patented an invention, something to do with the motorways as well but common sense goes out of the window where football is concerned.

Many a good businessman will have wished he'd never got involved with the football club he loved, it's like no other businesses.
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I did subsequently qualify that post you quoted, and maybe I was a bit harsh, but it’s undeniable that whatever skills he possessed, none of them helped him to even being close to being barely competent to run a football club, even though his success elsewhere would have filled him with confidence that he would be hugely successful in running City.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I did subsequently qualify that post you quoted, and maybe I was a bit harsh, but it’s undeniable that whatever skills he possessed, none of them helped him to even being close to being barely competent to run a football club, even though his success elsewhere would have filled him with confidence that he would be hugely successful in running City.
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He must have looked at Jack Walker and thought with his football knowledge he would be just as successful if not more. Walker put his man in (Dalgliesh) and Franny probably reckoned he could trump that too with a World Cup Winner. Just the way he was I suppose.
 
The reason for the poor start to the season (lost first 6 or 7) despite having a decent side, was because the players had downed tools due to Ball's dreadful attitude towards them. They hoped that the poor form would get him sacked, but Lee went public, backed Ball and said the players will go before Ball did and the rest is history.
 
Gazza said:
The reason for the poor start to the season (lost first 6 or 7) despite having a decent side, was because the players had downed tools due to Ball's dreadful attitude towards them. They hoped that the poor form would get him sacked, but Lee went public, backed Ball and said the players will go before Ball did and the rest is history.
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Sounds like we were where the rags are now.
 
Shaggy said:
In a book by Hunter Davies, Davies writes that Francis Lee did not know about Ball signing Lee Badbuy and would not have sanctioned the purchase had he known about it.
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Frank CLarke signed Lee Bradbury
The story I hear from Franny’s mouth was Clarke came to him and said he wanted to sign Bradbury, has it was a significant amount of the available budget he asked if he was sure and how much had he had him scouted, have you watched in live Frank? Clarke assured Franny that he had been watched for some time, that he had seem him play and was sure he was worth the outlay. Franny then went on to say how when he saw him play, his first touch, in front of the Kippax, how he immediately doubted his ability, said he was conflicted though as he had to back his manager
From his autobiography written with Bill Bradshaw page 326 “We’d kept Kinkladze ( Clarke wasnt convinced ) and brought in £3m striker Lee Bradbury from Portsmouth - I’d wish I’d seen him play before Frank Clarke signed him. When I did see him play in our shirt,I kew it was a mistake!
 
Citizen Green said:
Much as it pains me, I can see why united fans had a field day taking the piss around this time as Lee & Ball were like two comedic characters who had no business running a professional football club, especially one the size of Manchester City.

I'm not saying Horton deserved the boot, but I also don't buy in to belief we were on to bigger and better things with him. Whilst playing entertaining football with some big scalps, his ultimate record reads a 16th & 17th place finish in the Prem, a League Cup QF & a 5-0 hammering at the swamp. He didn't pull up trees anywhere after City either.

The best course of action would of been that next step up again in quality around the time, who could of worked with what we had, whilst adding some steal to it, whether a Martin O'Neill, George Graham or similar.
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Wasn’t Martin O’Neil treated badly by City during his playing days. I don’t think he ever forgave us for that.
George Graham didn’t do much at Leeds with a big budget. He used us to flush Leeds out.
 
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Citizen Green said:
Much as it pains me, I can see why united fans had a field day taking the piss around this time as Lee & Ball were like two comedic characters who had no business running a professional football club, especially one the size of Manchester City.

I'm not saying Horton deserved the boot, but I also don't buy in to belief we were on to bigger and better things with him. Whilst playing entertaining football with some big scalps, his ultimate record reads a 16th & 17th place finish in the Prem, a League Cup QF & a 5-0 hammering at the swamp. He didn't pull up trees anywhere after City either.

The best course of action would of been that next step up again in quality around the time, who could of worked with what we had, whilst adding some steal to it, whether a Martin O'Neill, George Graham or similar.
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I agree with horton , played great football, was a super nice guy, but we’d have gone down sticking with him.

But … alan ball was never the answer
 
TShed said:
Went to see Alan Ball at a “gentleman’s” evening at Ridge Hill WMC while he was still manager
The most boring night ever all he talked about was the virtues of family his Dad (another football genius lol) and ………… can’t remember anything else
Wouldn’t drink with us place was packed with Bridge Blues posed for a few photos then fucked off

Best part of the night was when Vince Miller announced that the Pies have arrived
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I was at that mate, my mate Pete was the steward at the time.
 
East Level 2 said:
Lee or Swales as worst chairman.
I'm going for Ball and Lee simply because their ineptitude eventually led to a fall into the third division whereas other clowns only ever got us as low as 12th (I think) in the second division.
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Swales saw a long decline of City in his first season after he wormed his way in City won the League Cup that was it he plunged the club into huge debt totally fucked up the development of Maine Road compare the Platt Lane, which he wanted to replicate to the Kippax to what Franny had built. He wasnt a City fan the club was just a convenient tool for his own ambitions. He resisted selling to Lee and did everything he could to sell elsewhere, in the end he had to sell as the business was on the verge of bankruptcy. He then proceed to do everything to sabotage Franny’s takeover, his last minute change of demands before the final signing eg buying a new Jag which he demanded to keep negotiating new enhanced contracts with all the external suppliers, including his own company supply the Tvs to the club. The consequences of that being taking a large chunk of the money Lee had earmarked for improvements Swales never used his 3 executive seats, he had negotiated as part of the takeover, unlike Lee who paid for his own table in the Chairman’s lounge attending most games as a fan which he sure was.
Yes, things didnt go well for Lee but the foundations for the demise were laid by the reign of egotistical swales, maybe we had to go to rock bottom to recover until the ultimate takeover by Sheikh Mansour
 
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Sky Blue Thinking said:
Coton was injured pre season and Ball didnt seem to fancy Dibble or Margetson which led to Immel arriving just before the season started. Not replacing Coton for Immel was a poor choice which probably had an impact on TC joining the rags. Pretty sure Immel ended up having a hip replacement not long after leaving us.
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I've heard in the past that Francis Lee wanted the big earners off the wage bill. Hence why within 6 months Coton,Quinn, Curle and others we're out the door. Pretty sure Tony Coton says in his book that Ball told him no matter what happened, he'd never play for city again!
 
TShed said:
Went to see Alan Ball at a “gentleman’s” evening at Ridge Hill WMC while he was still manager
The most boring night ever all he talked about was the virtues of family his Dad (another football genius lol) and ………… can’t remember anything else
Wouldn’t drink with us place was packed with Bridge Blues posed for a few photos then fucked off

Best part of the night was when Vince Miller announced that the Pies have arrived
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Saw him at one in Stockport he was awful spoke about how his dad was never happy with his achievements eg dad I won the World Cup I know son but dont tell me until youve won another and how if he had won a second, and said dad ive won another World Cup he would have said dont tell me until …… and so on

Not sure if was the same event but Fred Eyre told a story about how after a dinner he'd broken down in the Mersey Tunnel and Alan and his dad stopped and offer to tow him out but he refused as he didnt want to be know as the man dragged out of the Mersey Tunnel by the balls
 
melrose40yarder said:
I Will never forget the Alan Ball is a football genius chant.Or Wycombe away in the league cup weve had a shot chant.
Stoke away was the best with all 4 sides of the ground we want Ball out!!
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Forest away when Jason Lee scored a quick hat trick against us. I think their fans joined with the football genius song because he scored.
 
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