Alan Ball: Did Franny Lee Really Think He Would Bring Trophies?

StillBluessinceHydeRoad said:
When Ball was "relieved of his duties" Asa Hartford became caretaker manager, though he didn't want the full time job, until Steve Coppel was appointed permanent manager (for all of a month!). Phil Neal then became caretaker manager to continue the managerial musical chairs until Frank Clark was appointed and kept the job for over a year! What still amazes me is that this list of managers may not be full of A-listers but they had been good professionals and one or two had very solid records as managers - so why did they become incompetent, irrational wrecks once they set foot in Maine Road?!
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We had a pretty shambolic and very large squad by then. Most of these managers had had bought (badly) and left us with a dogs dinner like a bargain bin version of what the rags have now.
When we went down in 98 the muen did a two page spread on the squad. 55 on the books with some id never heard of and I was a regular then. Bernstein/Royle had a hell of a clear out.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
We had a pretty shambolic and very large squad by then. Most of these managers had had bought (badly) and left us with a dogs dinner like a bargain bin version of what the rags have now.
When we went down in 98 the muen did a two page spread on the squad. 55 on the books with some id never heard of and I was a regular then. Bernstein/Royle had a hell of a clear out.
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I remember seeing squad lists with names like Edde McGoldrick, Jason Van Blerk, Craig Russell, Steven Vaughan etc. Totally overloaded squad.
 
Lovebitesandeveryfing said:
Saunders' problem was not understanding the era he was a football manager in. The sixties and seventies had changed footballers, like everyone else. He had a quasi-military style that lost the dressing room more or less straight away. Funnily enough, Bill Nicholson at Tottenham had the same kind of style, and his tenure actually ends at the same time as Saunders' brief one at Maine Rd. However, Nicholson lived, ate and breathed Tottenham, both as player and manager. He'd also guided them to the first double of the twentieth century.So he could get away with it. His players were in awe of him. His wife said of him, “The problem with Bill is that he's never grasped that he's not in the army any more”. (He was the same at home).
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Saunders' reign at City was very disappointing considering the team we had at that time. "Player Power" was his downfall, as you say. For me, he ranks alongside the likes of Ball as one of our worst managers however IMHO Frank Clark was the bottom of the pile. Closely followed by 'Genial' George Poyser :-(
 
StillBluessinceHydeRoad said:
Why did they become incompetent, irrational wrecks once they set foot in Maine Road?!
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sw-ales.gif
 
OnlyOneUweRosler said:
I think Ball believed since he was a good player he was obviously going to be a good manager, but they are different skills.
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That is of course true. .

But I have to say ,reading up on Balls playing career.He was mint.

No doubt about it. One of the finest midfield players ever to play the game in this country.
Hence British record transfer fee in his time,A place in the heart of Everton FC history ,the legendary ' Holy Trinity " of Ball Kendall and Harvey. In his day untouchable.
The world cup winners medal,the white boots,the fantastic goal he scored for arsenal v City at Highbury 1975,the game we won.3-1..but didn't win again at Arsenal for over 35 years..
Also played very well in the top division in later years with Southampton,helping a young Steve Williams learn adroit central midfield play...

I've read lots of negative stuff about Alan Ball on this forum, and I've been part of the verbal vocal slandering of his name at matches......in the dark days....
But,..
If we are talking Football,The man stands tall,and his playing record and honours won is something to be proud of.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Lee reminds me of my old man. Came from nothing, made a few quid from ducking and diving (which is nothing to be sniffed at) but that makes them think that gives them powers they do not possess.

What probably happened with Francis is that when he retired someone he trusted persuaded him to invest in a waste paper business, and he did just that - and the investment paid off.

And that made him come to believe he was some sort of business guru.

It’s a natural human reaction, but the best way to make the most of what you’ve got is to know your limits. Only then can you properly focus on what makes you successful.
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He started his waste paper business when he was an apprentice at Bolton use to go straight from training collecting the paper for recycling sometimes in hand carts he worked his socks just like on the pitch

I would agree, he wasnt a business man in the model of David Bernstein He made his millions through hard work and sheer determination and probably more than a few dodgy deals, he would also have used his football fame along the way. He sold his paper business to Northern Foods and retain a % of shares and a seat on the board. With his wealth he invested in other ventures I remember him telling a story of how on his journey to Derby he was a man hand painting the armco barriers on the roadside, thinking there must be a way of automating it he contacted a guy he knew who, with Franny’s backing, developed a spray system that would attach to a vehicle a successful company grew out of that So he was quite astute. Incidentally he nearly lost his paper business to a scam, he virtually had to rebuild it.
His downfall as chairman was not recognising early enough that he needed to get the right people in position to run the business, he in my opinion should have appointed himself as DoF brought someone in like Bernstein to run the business and not trusted Colin Barlow who, never fulfilled his promises of capital, thus he was even more hamstrung Franny was unlucky as the Chairman having to develop the Kippax then finding that they had to spend even more because the land wasn't stable. The manager situation, being let down by Kidd having to turn to Ball then the shambles of Coppell, Frank Clarke turning out to be a weirdo. How different it would have been if he had appointed Bernstein and Royle but, hey ho hindsight eh
 
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OnlyOneUweRosler said:
I remember being there the day Lee was unveiled as the new chairman, and supposedly bring back the good times. That was 1994. In the 5 years that followed city plunged to the third flight. Had city not got promoted in 1999 against Gillingham, the sponsorship deals from the seasons they were premiership/championship were due to run out, would not have been renewed for the third flight, and city would have gone into administration.
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That parallel world doesn't even bare thinking about. I remember sat on my seat at Wembley punching fuck out of it and thinking 'This is it, we're not coming back as a club from here'. It was without doubt,one of worst moments in my life. Within minutes that changed to one of(if not the) greatest moments. I don't know what the fuck Lee was playing at appointing Ball, but it set the club back over a decade. Not doing too bad now though hey ;-)
 
The Club was rotten from top to bottom even after Swales, the damage was set in stone.
I really think we had really good players, but the managers and chairmen and the in-house fighting got to the football side of things with players,
 
dennishasdoneit said:
That is of course true. .

But I have to say ,reading up on Balls playing career.He was mint.

No doubt about it. One of the finest midfield players ever to play the game in this country.
Hence British record transfer fee in his time,A place in the heart of Everton FC history ,the legendary ' Holy Trinity " of Ball Kendall and Harvey. In his day untouchable.
The world cup winners medal,the white boots,the fantastic goal he scored for arsenal v City at Highbury 1975,the game we won.3-1..but didn't win again at Arsenal for over 35 years..
Also played very well in the top division in later years with Southampton,helping a young Steve Williams learn adroit central midfield play...

I've read lots of negative stuff about Alan Ball on this forum, and I've been part of the verbal vocal slandering of his name at matches......in the dark days....
But,..
If we are talking Football,The man stands tall,and his playing record and honours won is something to be proud of.
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Absolutely
 
ancoats said:
The Club was rotten from top to bottom even after Swales, the damage was set in stone.
I really think we had really good players, but the managers and chairmen and the in-house fighting got to the football side of things with players,
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The famous 5th element!
Thing is Swales spent 25 years wrecking the club and was never seen again after the take over
Franny spent <4 years trying to put things right he lost money on his City investment he was a regular and paid for a table in the Chairman’s Lounge after he sold up
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
We had a pretty shambolic and very large squad by then. Most of these managers had had bought (badly) and left us with a dogs dinner like a bargain bin version of what the rags have now.
When we went down in 98 the muen did a two page spread on the squad. 55 on the books with some id never heard of and I was a regular then. Bernstein/Royle had a hell of a clear out.
Click to expand...
It is very difficult, not to say impossible, to remember the full scale and the many facets of the chaos that reigned at City in that period but before Brian Horton was sacked the MotD pundits thought City would qualify for Europe in the coming season and were a good bet for the FA cup. This was a testimony to the players Brian recruited and actually used but this always seemed an impossible dream once Alan Ball's season got under way. Apparently he couldn't remember players' names and got them mixed up and sat on a deck chair during training and used a loud hailer to lambast the players. Then, of course, he had to tell us how much he enjoyed watching Liverpool humiliate and slaughter us 6-0 at Anfield. Not the best way to lead a team to trophies ... or win the support of the fans just freed from Peter Swales regime.
 
Gordyola said:
The famous 5th element!
Thing is Swales spent 25 years wrecking the club and was never seen again after the take over
Franny spent <4 years trying to put things right he lost money on his City investment he was a regular and paid for a table in the Chairman’s Lounge after he sold up
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Swales' damage to City needed a shed load more money than Franny had to play with, Franny was not daft with his money. Yes he loved the club but knew his limit, and it was a bigger job than he first thought

Funny thing is, I don't think City could have ever chased United and Liverpool and the top 4 back then, they were set in stone and no amount of money invested into City back then would have changed things, City was never going to be happy just to be a middle of the road club getting 40 points and happy to sit in the Premier League and get bummed by the so called elite every week,

Maybe that was the problem with City back then ? Our ambition was too high and we thought we could fight the good fight,

I truly look back on them days as great times at Manchester City. Glory and silverware were never on the cards, looking back, I think being a Yoyo gave us enough joy and sadness rather than being a 2nd rate loser that was a nearly club
 
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