Alan Ball: Did Franny Lee Really Think He Would Bring Trophies?

But he never built a team with a solid spine and he should have been sacked after the 0-5 at the swamp. Playing David Brightwell at LB against Kanchelskis was asking for trouble, not that there was much logic with the rest of his team selection.
Playing David Brightwell at left back was never a good idea but I don't agree that he should have been sacked. In some games at the end of 93/94 and the first half of 94/95 he got plenty of selections right at home particularly but I'd agree the lack of a solid spine was an issue at times. Coton, CurlrLomas and Flitcroft were decent enough but a more defensively savvy player than Nicky Summerbee on the right would have helped make us harder to beat. The 4-2-4 was too open at times but there were times when it had spectacular results.
 
All I'd say in Frank Clark's favour is that despite being incredibly clueless in 97-98, he had one good half a season in 96-97, keeping us up with signings like Kevin Horlock. Ball had no positives - he even tried to con us that Michael fuckin' Brown was a replacement for Garey Flitcroft who the chairman sold.
 
At last. Some true perspective regarding Horton. Take out the back end of the 93/94 season when Lee gave him the money to buy Walsh, Rosler, and Beagrie - signings that arguably kept us up - and the first half of the 94/95 season, and there isn't much left to write home about. Just because Ball was a disaster for us, doesn't mean that Horton should've kept his job.

I say all this as someone who was seemingly in a minority of City fans who knew who Horton was when he was appointed! I also backed him to the hilt from day one, starting with that warm midweek evening when we won 3-1 at Swindon in his first game in charge. The way I saw it was that even though Swales was a twat and Maddock was an even bigger twat, none of that was Horton's fault. He came in during a very difficult time but once the takeover happened and we strengthened the squad, we should've kicked on a bit more than we did IMO. Everyone talks about the 3-0 v West Ham, the 4-0 v Everton, and the 5-2 v Spurs in those opening couple of months or so of the 94/95 season, and to be fair they were all very entertaining matches - along with the back-to-back 3-3 home draws against Forest and Saints - but nobody talks about all those heavy away defeats in the same period. I seem to remember that after beating Ipswich away in December 1994 we were 6th in the league but then once our unbeaten home record went against Arsenal the following week, the wheels came off and we weren't far off going down. When Easter came, I remember buying my ticket for (I think) Forest away from the ticket office on Good Friday 1995 - same day we played Liverpool at home - and telling people in the queue that I couldn't see where our next win was coming from. Nobody disagreed with me. As it happens, we went on to beat Liverpool that same day and famously beat Blackburn away 3 days later in 2 very good performances and those wins ultimately saved us from the drop. But don't anyone tell me that we would've won things under Horton or that he was the long-term answer. He wasn't, and nothing he has done before or since in management will convince me otherwise, including that couple of months or so as Huddersfield manager where he briefly had them top of the 2nd tier. Ultimately, he was sacked a couple of years later with them bottom of the division.

I was at the game at Swindon… think we were 1:0 down when Coton saved a pen. Brian who?
 
It was the Exeter? (or whoever we bought him from) Chairman who said that....not the football genius that was Alan Ball.

Ball bought Phillips from Exeter after Exeter found money missing dating back to when he was their manager. Phillips was hyped up to cover the fee. I heard this first hand from the Exeter chairman. I’ve no idea if Franny Lee knew if the transfer was a sham to cover up a fraud, but I doubt it.
 
I am appalled about Creaney because of the lack of effort whereas I can forgive Bradbury who tried but just couldn't handle playing for a bigger club and it affected his all round play especially his finishing. Bradbury looked petrified whereas Creaney looked like he couldn't be arsed.
I think that was certainly the case with Creaney.

He looked a half-decent player with Celtic (36 goals in 112 games) and Portsmouth (32 goals in 60 games). Then he signed for City and got a decent contract and at 25 appeared to give up (4 goals in 21 games). His weight ballooned and he went on numerous loans.

When his contract ended he came for a trial with Hibs. It was an open event and quite a few supporters were present for the training sessions. He looked unfit and was given the bums rush. He signed for St Mirren and played 12 games (3 goals) before moving to Notts County with no more success and drifted from club to club quitting at 30.
 
I am appalled about Creaney because of the lack of effort whereas I can forgive Bradbury who tried but just couldn't handle playing for a bigger club and it affected his all round play especially his finishing. Bradbury looked petrified whereas Creaney looked like he couldn't be arsed.
Random question...who was the under performing striker for City who scored a hatrick in a pre season friendly at Turf Moor?
All I can think of now is Joy Divisions A New Dawn Fades...
Was it lee badbuy?
 
Random question...who was the under performing striker for City who scored a hatrick in a pre season friendly at Turf Moor?
All I can think of now is Joy Divisions A New Dawn Fades...
Was it lee badbuy?
Not sure if it was 3 goals but he definitely got 2. He was brilliant that day and many thought Gio passing into his runs would take us up. Ho hum………..
 
At last. Some true perspective regarding Horton. Take out the back end of the 93/94 season when Lee gave him the money to buy Walsh, Rosler, and Beagrie - signings that arguably kept us up - and the first half of the 94/95 season, and there isn't much left to write home about. Just because Ball was a disaster for us, doesn't mean that Horton should've kept his job.

I say all this as someone who was seemingly in a minority of City fans who knew who Horton was when he was appointed! I also backed him to the hilt from day one, starting with that warm midweek evening when we won 3-1 at Swindon in his first game in charge. The way I saw it was that even though Swales was a twat and Maddock was an even bigger twat, none of that was Horton's fault. He came in during a very difficult time but once the takeover happened and we strengthened the squad, we should've kicked on a bit more than we did IMO. Everyone talks about the 3-0 v West Ham, the 4-0 v Everton, and the 5-2 v Spurs in those opening couple of months or so of the 94/95 season, and to be fair they were all very entertaining matches - along with the back-to-back 3-3 home draws against Forest and Saints - but nobody talks about all those heavy away defeats in the same period. I seem to remember that after beating Ipswich away in December 1994 we were 6th in the league but then once our unbeaten home record went against Arsenal the following week, the wheels came off and we weren't far off going down. When Easter came, I remember buying my ticket for (I think) Forest away from the ticket office on Good Friday 1995 - same day we played Liverpool at home - and telling people in the queue that I couldn't see where our next win was coming from. Nobody disagreed with me. As it happens, we went on to beat Liverpool that same day and famously beat Blackburn away 3 days later in 2 very good performances and those wins ultimately saved us from the drop. But don't anyone tell me that we would've won things under Horton or that he was the long-term answer. He wasn't, and nothing he has done before or since in management will convince me otherwise, including that couple of months or so as Huddersfield manager where he briefly had them top of the 2nd tier. Ultimately, he was sacked a couple of years later with them bottom of the division.
We were 13th going into the final day of the season and lost at home to QPR and finished 17th. Within context that was progress overall. Horton needed backing for one more summer, some defenders to replace Vonk & a right back and we’d have been top half I think with that midfield and forward line. We had options & we were capable of smashing the top teams. If we removed those 4 game losing streaks, maybe by smartening up away at the bigger clubs we’d have done well.

I think the decision to not back/sack Horton, whatever you want to believe, he’d have stayed if we’d signalled support, we’d have improved the next season and not gone down and down again.

Lee’s responsible for all major decisions that took us down and nearly destroyed our club. However it’s the journey isn’t it? We wouldn’t be the club we are if we’d not suffered. 11/12 - QPR - Aguero was like the best therapy ever for those 44 years of fucking up. I still brings tears to my eyes when I watch that goal and those crowd reactions. It was perfect.
 
Random question...who was the under performing striker for City who scored a hatrick in a pre season friendly at Turf Moor?
All I can think of now is Joy Divisions A New Dawn Fades...
Was it lee badbuy?
It was Georgios Samaras it was his first game for us. At the time I thought we signed a cracker
 
It was Georgios Samaras it was his first game for us. At the time I thought we signed a cracker
Samaras signed for us mid-season so I doubt his first game was a friendly at Turf Moor

IIRC, Bradbury scored twice in a 3-0 pre-season win there just after he signed for us
 
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But he never built a team with a solid spine and he should have been sacked after the 0-5 at the swamp. Playing David Brightwell at LB against Kanchelskis was asking for trouble, not that there was much logic with the rest of his team selection.
David Brightwell didn't play. Terry Phelan was at left back.
 
But he never built a team with a solid spine and he should have been sacked after the 0-5 at the swamp. Playing David Brightwell at LB against Kanchelskis was asking for trouble, not that there was much logic with the rest of his team selection.
Probably the best collective example of false memory syndrome in history.
 
Random question...who was the under performing striker for City who scored a hatrick in a pre season friendly at Turf Moor?
All I can think of now is Joy Divisions A New Dawn Fades...
Was it lee badbuy?
If I remember correctly it was Badbuy.

We were unbeaten in friendlies before the worst season ever...
 
Samaras signed for us mid-season so I doubt his first game was a friendly at Turf Moor

IIRC, Bradbury scored twice in a 3-0 pre-season win there just after he signed for us
Yes it was def Bradbury. He played a blinder that game. Looked like a world beater.
 
But he never built a team with a solid spine and he should have been sacked after the 0-5 at the swamp. Playing David Brightwell at LB against Kanchelskis was asking for trouble, not that there was much logic with the rest of his team selection.
Another ridiculous "David Brightwell was to blame for the 5-0 at The Swamp fiasco" comment - despite David Brightwell not even being on the pitch for any of the 90 minutes!

EDIT
I see it has already been pointed out
 
Margetson and Pollock! What a shit show they were that day!
Wrong QPR game. I think he was referring to the last game of the season when Blackburn won the league. Margetson and Pollock "starred" in the penultimate game of the season when we went down to division two.
 

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