It's Quiet the £250m return

Dazzle84 said:
Yeah I wasn't really arguing against it, just one of my fairly regular statements of frustration about Stones' fitness worries.

I think we need to go with what good units look like - that's probably Dias and Gvardiol as the main two and then balance the full backs - if Ake then Nunes/Rico and if Ait-Nouri then Akanji. I. Very optimistic about the season though
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I think we really need a right back. I don't think Rico/Nunes are up to it for the full season. I'd still like us to sign another midfielder. I'm cautiously optimistic, I'm not sure we've got enough to win it but we won't be far off
 
Quinny851 said:
I think we really need a right back. I don't think Rico/Nunes are up to it for the full season. I'd still like us to sign another midfielder. I'm cautiously optimistic, I'm not sure we've got enough to win it but we won't be far off
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A right back would be ideal, but not many knocking about. The fact that there's some on here advocating spending £80m on livramento shows the paucity of options
 
Quinny851 said:
Yep, you're correct. See mistakes happen!! In my defence, I was very, very pissed and bar Rodri's goal, I don't really remember much else
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Stefan saved him at Spurs too but most defenders have a mistake in them like Gabriel at the Arse!
 
FromPollockToSilva said:
I don't know how realistic it is for us to lose too many more experienced heads in one summer. There is a human, cultural impact to making changes on that scale. You need the squad to evolve, of course, but having experienced leaders who can pass on the culture, the standards, that have defined Guardiola's City seems to be an overlooked aspect by many on here

These are lads who have gone through everything together. They've played, trained, traveled, won, and lost with each other. Coming into day one of training, the look and feel of the squad will already be very different. We've already lost some huge figures in the dressing room with KDB, Walker, Grealish (won't be rejoining the squad realistically after the CWC snub), Carson (obviously not a factor on the pitch but a big character in the squad), plus a few on the coaching side

Bernardo has been made captain specifically to be a standard bearer of what it means to play for this team. To instill those values and how we approach the game, both tactically and mentally. I don't think one more year of Bernardo, Stones et al providing that critical cultural link while our younger players settle in or get vital game time on loan is the disaster that many are predicting
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I think people overestimate experience.

Not sure where the obsession comes from. I understand its importance to a degree. Guys like Foden Haaland Rodri Dias are experienced. Players we’ve just bought didn’t start playing football last week. Marmoush has been around.

I understand you need guys that know Peps system and how he works but what value do that bring to an actual game if they physically can’t play at the highest level anymore?

There has to be a change of guard. If you’re good then you shall play. I don’t see much experience in PSGs core. That Liverpool midfield held to own and won a title.

If the experience has no legs and it’s blocking the path of others who have bright future than it’s simply self sabotage.
 
FromPollockToSilva said:
I don't know how realistic it is for us to lose too many more experienced heads in one summer. There is a human, cultural impact to making changes on that scale. You need the squad to evolve, of course, but having experienced leaders who can pass on the culture, the standards, that have defined Guardiola's City seems to be an overlooked aspect by many on here

These are lads who have gone through everything together. They've played, trained, traveled, won, and lost with each other. Coming into day one of training, the look and feel of the squad will already be very different. We've already lost some huge figures in the dressing room with KDB, Walker, Grealish (won't be rejoining the squad realistically after the CWC snub), Carson (obviously not a factor on the pitch but a big character in the squad), plus a few on the coaching side

Bernardo has been made captain specifically to be a standard bearer of what it means to play for this team. To instill those values and how we approach the game, both tactically and mentally. I don't think one more year of Bernardo, Stones et al providing that critical cultural link while our younger players settle in or get vital game time on loan is the disaster that many are predicting
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Spot on.

Predictably, some have no idea whatsoever what it takes to build a top team. They think you just buy young players and play them ahead of Treble winners, because these are old (actually, they are younger than VVD and Salah, Gundo aside). Let's sell Bernardo, too old, can't run, and so on. Experience, leadership, standards count for little. Pep's knowledge isn't special either, because he is silly enough to play his favourites at the expense of the team. That people can reason like that is annoying.

To build a great team you need things that make the whole greater than the parts: values, standards, habits of thinking, training, etc. You need cultural capital, not just legs, energy, pace.
 
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alexmcity said:
Spot on.

Predictably, some have no idea whatsoever what it takes to build a top team. They think you just buy young players and play them ahead of Treble winners, because these are old (actually, they are younger than VVD and Salah, Gundo aside). Let's sell Bernardo, too old, can't run, and so on. Experience, leadership, standards count for little. Pep's knowledge isn't special either, because he is silly enough to play his favourites at the expense of the team. That people can reason like that is annoying.

To build a great team you need things that make the whole greater than the parts: values, standards, habits of thinking, training, etc. You need cultural capital, not just legs, energy, pace, etc.
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It’s not necessarily about age in my eyes. Bernardo is 30. Kova is 31. I’m looking at the amount of kms those legs have ran. Sterling faded out by 2020. It’s about what you do on the pitch.

We’re not running a charity here. I’m not even worried about what other clubs are doing. I’m basing my opinions purely off logic and what my eyes see. What is the likelihood that these guys that aren’t in their prime anymore suddenly going to turn back the hands of time and start dictating games on their own. It’s low. Not impossible. What are the chances that a youngster with a high ceiling can reach it. It’s be wise to invest in the latter no ?
 
Damanino said:
if we really have a 250m kitty as the title says which now looks less than what rivals spending, we are still far away from that.
Reinjders 55m
Cherki 30m
Ait Nouri 34m
Nypan 12
Trafford 27

we are at about 160m spent, but still hopefully 50m worth of players to be sold, McAtee should bring 30m of that alone.
Ortega, Akanji, Gundo, Grealish should bring another 30-40m overall. that could see us net spend of 90m? doubt thats it for us while rivals spending net above 250m...
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Would think we can get more than 50 for the players we are trying to sell
 
BluestBlue said:
It’s not necessarily about age in my eyes. Bernardo is 30. Kova is 31. I’m looking at the amount of kms those legs have ran. Sterling faded out by 2020. It’s about what you do on the pitch.

We’re not running a charity here. I’m not even worried about what other clubs are doing. I’m basing my opinions purely off logic and what my eyes see. What is the likelihood that these guys that aren’t in their prime anymore suddenly going to turn back the hands of time and start dictating games on their own. It’s low. Not impossible. What are the chances that a youngster with a high ceiling can reach it. It’s be wise to invest in the latter no ?
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My logic says you don't get rid of all the guys that you know can do it, to replace them with guys that might
It needs a gradual change which will happen as players go out of contract and move on
 
BluestBlue said:
It’s not necessarily about age in my eyes. Bernardo is 30. Kova is 31. I’m looking at the amount of kms those legs have ran. Sterling faded out by 2020. It’s about what you do on the pitch.

We’re not running a charity here. I’m not even worried about what other clubs are doing. I’m basing my opinions purely off logic and what my eyes see. What is the likelihood that these guys that aren’t in their prime anymore suddenly going to turn back the hands of time and start dictating games on their own. It’s low. Not impossible. What are the chances that a youngster with a high ceiling can reach it. It’s be wise to invest in the latter no ?
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The point was that there's a lot more to building a team than having a bunch of players, and that certain experienced players play a key role in helping the manager make the whole greater than the parts. Values, mentality, standards, habits of thinking, training, reacting to losses, and so on, are key to success. The extent to which some underplay intelligence, experience, mentality and overrate physicality shows lack of understanding of how Pep builds winning teams.

Also, the lack of self-awareness is annoying. People who haven't managed at any level think they understand the source of our problems better than Pep. How silly must one be to genuinely believe he understands better than Pep that Gundo and Bernie suck and must go?
 
alexmcity said:
Also, the lack of self-awareness is annoying. People who haven't managed at any level think they understand the source of our problems better than Pep. How silly must one be to genuinely believe he understands better than Pep that Gundo and Bernie suck and must go?
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Pep admitted he fucked up by turning down the opportunity to start our succession rebuild last summer, hence our hurried winter & summer acquisitions. Ultimately, last season we won fuck all, & almost got relegated from the CL.

If we bought all these players, what was the point if not to replace our ageing squad of permacrocks?
 
alexmcity said:
The point was that there's a lot more to building a team than having a bunch of players, and that certain experienced players play a key role in helping the manager make the whole greater than the parts. Values, mentality, standards, habits of thinking, training, reacting to losses, and so on, are key to success. The extent to which some underplay intelligence, experience, mentality and overrate physicality shows lack of understanding of how Pep builds winning teams.

Also, the lack of self-awareness is annoying. People who haven't managed at any level think they understand the source of our problems better than Pep. How silly must one be to genuinely believe he understands better than Pep that Gundo and Bernie suck and must go?
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I never once said I’m better than Pep. Nobody here is. I’m not a manager. I’m sure they’re a bunch of intangibles that go on behind the scenes for that winning formula.

I’m just a fan who’s watched every single game. Barely miss a game. I know how each player plays. I can recognises patterns. And my eyes don’t lie ta me.

everyone is entitled to their opinion. I’ll never police a fan. If you want to watch Gundo and Bernardo every game that’s your prerogative. I’m talking on MY behalf. I’d like to enjoy the football I watch.

I know some players still think they have a lot left in the tank like Walker still thought he was THAT guy even after the 4Peat. But I could see as someone who’s watched him for almost a decade that he’s lost it. The same can be said for many of our players.

If you want to compete with the best and win trophies, the team with the best players come out on top. I’m not asking for Mbappe and Hakimi but i’d like the players to have best environment to reach their potential.
 
Damanino said:
if we really have a 250m kitty as the title says which now looks less than what rivals spending, we are still far away from that.
Reinjders 55m
Cherki 30m
Ait Nouri 34m
Nypan 12
Trafford 27

we are at about 160m spent, but still hopefully 50m worth of players to be sold, McAtee should bring 30m of that alone.
Ortega, Akanji, Gundo, Grealish should bring another 30-40m overall. that could see us net spend of 90m? doubt thats it for us while rivals spending net above 250m...
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We spent a lot in Jan too but I doubt money is ever an issue with us. They didn’t blink when it came to Grealish.
 
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