Savinho | City reject Spurs approach

[Saddleworth2]

Based on last season, there is possibly only Gvardiol worthy of his place. This is part of the issue with judging individuals when the collective is really the dial-turner. So, whether they are good enough, or not, is yet to be able to be determined, IMO, but I am someone who relishes the journey. In a cohesive whole, and I think we will witness that as various points this season, I believe that our wingers will begin to hit better numbers. We are, as a fanbase, very critical of our wide players though, and let's not forget that both Mahrez and Sterling received pelters here from many posters.

The other issue is that there will be no academy player 'good enough to play for an elite club competing for trophies.' We have to allow room for player development, or consign ourselves to paying top-dollar, and closing pathways.

I would say that Phil was. I hope you are right and I wrong. My footballing gut instinct was that Cole was good enough, Rico still might be, Doku still might be, Oscar Bobb will be. I have already seen stuff from that young man that few if any of our squad could execute. O'Reilly might be. The one I have real doubts about is Savinho although he has been quite brilliant occasionally he is very inconsistent. I don't see the footballing intelligence that would push his game to another level and I don't see the mentality to learn from his mistakes. But hey, I wish him well whatever he does and trust the club to make the right decisions.

 

[NQCitizen]

Truly don't understand why people aren't seeing his potential. He had a pretty damn good year in with a team in flux and was only 20 years old. Tons of talent. No way in hell I'd sell him to another PL team or anywhere unless ridiculous money is being offered.

Yeah I've got to say I'm pretty surprised how divisive he is.

Everyone around me in the stands seems to rate him and I thought it was generally acknowledged he's our closest thing to our own Doue/Barcola/Williams.

I still think of him as one of the top 5-10 U21 wingers in the world.

 

[oldius]

I would say that Phil was. I hope you are right and I wrong. My footballing gut instinct was that Cole was good enough, Rico still might be, Doku still might be, Oscar Bobb will be. I have already seen stuff from that young man that few if any of our squad could execute. O'Reilly might be. The one I have real doubts about is Savinho although he has been quite brilliant occasionally he is very inconsistent. I don't see the footballing intelligence that would push his game to another level and I don't see the mentality to learn from his mistakes. But hey, I wish him well whatever he does and trust the club to make the right decisions.

I don't have the same doubts about Savinho based on skillset. There are no guarantees though because success is a complex mix of skill, desire, mentality, and luck. When all those come together, you're laughing. I hope it does, for all of our players.
Good debate.

 

[NQCitizen]

I would say that Phil was. I hope you are right and I wrong. My footballing gut instinct was that Cole was good enough, Rico still might be, Doku still might be, Oscar Bobb will be. I have already seen stuff from that young man that few if any of our squad could execute. O'Reilly might be. The one I have real doubts about is Savinho although he has been quite brilliant occasionally he is very inconsistent. I don't see the footballing intelligence that would push his game to another level and I don't see the mentality to learn from his mistakes. But hey, I wish him well whatever he does and trust the club to make the right decisions.

I can't speak for his mentality (and no one here can) but to be in 98-99% percentile for dribbling, passing and assisting does suggest his football intelligence is pretty solid, especially with his 3000 minute sample size. I actually think his creativity and decision making (albeit not in shot choice) are two of his biggest strengths for a 21 year old.

 

[mattcity5]

Yeah I've got to say I'm pretty surprised how divisive he is.

Everyone around me in the stands seems to rate him and I thought it was generally acknowledged he's our closest thing to our own Doue/Barcola/Williams.

I still think of him as one of the top 5-10 U21 wingers in the world.

I think Ive got to my viewpoint via the following questions.

1. If we are level or losing, and he is sub, am I desperate for him to come on?
2. If we are one up and under pressure, am I sad to see him go off?

My answer is no to both. Not doubting he had ability, everyone who gets as many opportunities as he had for us last year has a ton of ability. It's reliability, decision making, game intelligence, workrate - stuff like that, that I doubt. I wouldn't mind him staying and being an option in a more stable team. It's be interesting to see how he'd progress. But the squad still needs trimming so if a good bid comes in then it just makes sense to me.

 

[NQCitizen]

I think Ive got to my viewpoint via the following questions.

1. If we are level or losing, and he is sub, am I desperate for him to come on?
2. If we are one up and under pressure, am I sad to see him go off?

My answer is no to both. Not doubting he had ability, everyone who gets as many opportunities as he had for us last year has a ton of ability. It's reliability, decision making, game intelligence, workrate - stuff like that, that I doubt. I wouldn't mind him staying and being an option in a more stable team. It's be interesting to see how he'd progress. But the squad still needs trimming so if a good bid comes in then it just makes sense to me.

I can see the argument, even if I don't agree. I actually think we're going to really miss his creativity and dribbling, especially if Foden can't stay fit.

The thing for me is I expect it to be a resounding yes to your two questions when its a Savinho we've developed and he's 24.

Imo it should be Akanji on a free (because we bought Khusanov) or Nico G on loan (because gundo, kova and bernardo are staying). I'd still add Rodrygo to it!

 

[mattcity5]

I can see the argument, even if I don't agree. I actually think we're going to really miss his creativity and dribbling, especially if Foden can't stay fit.

The thing for me is I expect it to be a resounding yes to your two questions when its a Savinho we've developed and he's 24.

Imo it should be Akanji on a free (because we bought Khusanov) or Nico G on loan (because gundo, kova and bernardo are staying). I'd still add Rodrygo to it!

Yeah tbf you could be right about him when he's 24, I'm just not sure we can wait that long for some of his negative points to disappear.

We were led to believe Viana would be firm in getting rid of players, but I'm guessing it doesn't extend to giving free transfers by the looks of things. Or that's how we want to portray things and it may still be an option come deadline day.

To be clear, I've long backed Oscar Bobb to become something special with us. I see elements of his game in terms of vision, possession, creativity and teamwork that is pretty rare. I think he's one we'll really kick ourselves about if he ends up leaving, so for me, making sure there is a chance for him is big. That's partly why I'm more or less ok with this situation, though ideally space would be created in the squad a different way (as you said).

Ps. I've said for ages the time to judge this window is after it's shut, so there could be a few ups and downs before then.

 

[NQCitizen]

Yeah tbf you could be right about him when he's 24, I'm just not sure we can wait that long for some of his negative points to disappear.

We were led to believe Viana would be firm in getting rid of players, but I'm guessing it doesn't extend to giving free transfers by the looks of things. Or that's how we want to portray things and it may still be an option come deadline day.

To be clear, I've long backed Oscar Bobb to become something special with us. I see elements of his game in terms of vision, possession, creativity and teamwork that is pretty rare. I think he's one we'll really kick ourselves about if he ends up leaving, so for me, making sure there is a chance for him is big. That's partly why I'm more or less ok with this situation, though ideally space would be created in the squad a different way (as you said).

Ps. I've said for ages the time to judge this window is after it's shut, so there could be a few ups and downs before then.

I mean ironically that's one of the fun things about football isnt it - you have a young guy and you see something in him (and if you're not just daft you find a bit of evidence beyond the eye test).

For me i just like an awful lot of what I see in Savinho and I'm pretty willing to hang my hat on a season of him being the worst finisher in Europe as an aberration.

For you its Bobb, who I do like watching but I worry he's lost too much development time and feel like I've seen flashes of brilliance under no expectation. I wonder what a full season of Bobb holding down a place looks like.

For all the animosity on bluemoon its actually hearing what other people see in guys you don't fully that's intriguing.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I can't speak for his mentality (and no one here can) but to be in 98-99% percentile for dribbling, passing and assisting does suggest his football intelligence is pretty solid, especially with his 3000 minute sample size. I actually think his creativity and decision making (albeit not in shot choice) are two of his biggest strengths for a 21 year old.

You can judge his mentality by his actions on the pitch. He needs to stop the diving, complaining, feigning injury and general slapped arse behaviours. If he has indeed indicated that he wants out, I rest my case.
At 21, Leroy had 33 goals/assists in 49 games in 17/18. At the same age, Raheem was bagging around the same numbers. Savinho is that age now he may blossom later than those two. Who knows. Those two set a benchmark though for what we could expect from wingers.

 

[NQCitizen]

You can judge his mentality by his actions on the pitch. He needs to stop the diving, complaining, feigning injury and general slapped arse behaviours. If he has indeed indicated that he wants out, I rest my case.
At 21, Leroy had 33 goals/assists in 49 games in 17/18. At the same age, Raheem was bagging around the same numbers. Savinho is that age now he may blossom later than those two. Who knows. Those two set a benchmark though for what we could expect from wingers.

Honestly before the ACL Sane was on his way to being a Ballon Dor contender forever.

Unbelievable player.

There's not a player on earth that complete at that age right now.

And they're not too great players to use as non diving, complaining, rolling about comparisons.

Marmoush does it more than Savinho and I couldn't really care less.

 

[handsofstone]

You can judge his mentality by his actions on the pitch. He needs to stop the diving, complaining, feigning injury and general slapped arse behaviours. If he has indeed indicated that he wants out, I rest my case.
At 21, Leroy had 33 goals/assists in 49 games in 17/18. At the same age, Raheem was bagging around the same numbers. Savinho is that age now he may blossom later than those two. Who knows. Those two set a benchmark though for what we could expect from wingers.

And the team they were in was completely different to the team of last year

Prime versions of KDB, Aguero, Merlin, Walker, Ederson, Dinho etc.

Sane first season in the EPL he got 5G/3A in 1900 minutes, a G/A every 235 mins

Sterling first season with us in the EPL he got 6G/2A in 1900 minutes, G/A every 235 mins like Sane

Savinho first season in the EPL he got 1G/8A in 1800 minutes, a G/A every 200mins

Yet these 2 were at levels Savinho couldn't reach? What if we sold Sane/Sterling after their first seasons?

 

[mattcity5]

I mean ironically that's one of the fun things about football isnt it - you have a young guy and you see something in him (and if you're not just daft you find a bit of evidence beyond the eye test).

For me i just like an awful lot of what I see in Savinho and I'm pretty willing to hang my hat on a season of him being the worst finisher in Europe as an aberration.

For you its Bobb, who I do like watching but I worry he's lost too much development time and feel like I've seen flashes of brilliance under no expectation. I wonder what a full season of Bobb holding down a place looks like.

For all the animosity on bluemoon its actually hearing what other people see in guys you don't fully that's intriguing.

Agree that while I love Oscar, he hasn't shown he can do it over a full season anywhere, so it is more of a hunch with little to back it up.

If he's staying with us, he needs big minutes this season. No point him staying if he's not getting big minutes as he needs to prove he can do it regularly. I'd be okay with him getting a loan if we could find a team who plays like we do and regularly comes up against packed defences, but those teams are hard to find. His best chance at showing how good he could be for City is by being great at City. Hopefully.

In terms of stats for Savinho some of his are probably also inflated due to defensive teams being happy to let him carry the ball down the wing. As long as they are all sat in and organised, I don't think they mind it too much, so some stats can be a bit misleading. I do follow lots of data guys on twitter so see the general importance, but sometimes the style of the team has a big impact on the stats too.

 

[Saddleworth2]

And the team they were in was completely different to the team of last year

Prime versions of KDB, Aguero, Merlin, Walker, Ederson, Dinho etc.

Sane first season in the EPL he got 5G/3A in 1900 minutes, a G/A every 235 mins

Sterling first season with us in the EPL he got 6G/2A in 1900 minutes, G/A every 235 mins like Sane

Savinho first season in the EPL he got 1G/8A in 1800 minutes, a G/A every 200mins

Yet these 2 were at levels Savinho couldn't reach? What if we sold Sane/Sterling after their first seasons?

Then Savinho will need to deliver 30+ this coming season because that’s what those two did.

 

[Master-Lotus]

Apparently we want 67mil pounds for Savinho. What happened with us not wanting to keep players who don't want to be here? Savinho's agent said he is uncertain of his future at Man City. Hopefully it's just part of the negotiation since the first Spurs offer was a lowball. There's no chance Levy will pay 67mil for him.

 

[Nevizade]

Think this one hinges on where Eze ends up, can't see Tottenham forking out for both him and Savinho.

 

[handsofstone]

Think this one hinges on where Eze ends up, can't see Tottenham forking out for both him and Savinho.

Maybe but they lost Madison for the season and Son, there is space now where there wasn't before

Looking at them last night what they need is a midfielder to partner Sarr and a proper striker if they dont trust Solanke or Tels, not 2 attacking kids given Kudus, Kulusevski and Johnson are there

 

[eastmanc]

Don't mind that all, just think if he wasn't Club Trained he might be off getting big minutes on loan.

He's better than Savio and he's probably better than Doku so for me he should be aleast on the bench and getting minutes from there.

 

[NQCitizen]

He's better than Savio and he's probably better than Doku so for me he should be aleast on the bench and getting minutes from there.

I love all this faith in Bobb but there's just no actual evidence to say that, we're talking about one guy who 19G/A in la liga and one guy who got 13 G/A in the PL either younger or the same age Bobb is now.

I actually feel sorry for the amount of expectation on him.

 

[eastmanc]

I love all this faith in Bobb but there's just no actual evidence to say that, we're talking about one guy who 19G/A in la liga and one guy who got 13 G/A in the PL either younger or the same age Bobb is now.

I actually feel sorry for the amount of expectation on him.

Bobb has a higher ceiling In my opinion. Don't get so pissed off about my view.

 

[ninjamonkey]

Apparently we want 67mil pounds for Savinho. What happened with us not wanting to keep players who don't want to be here? Savinho's agent said he is uncertain of his future at Man City. Hopefully it's just part of the negotiation since the first Spurs offer was a lowball. There's no chance Levy will pay 67mil for him.

In a market where elanga is worth £55m and madueke is worth £52m what makes you suggest Savinho isnt worth £67m? Based on the market, id say anything below £90m was too cheap. If we were looking to buy a 21 year old Brazilian international winger that got 11 g/a last season in their debut season following a 19 g/a debut season in spain, thats the kind of figure we'd be quoted as a minimum.