President Trump

flook said:
you generally talk a lot of sense and I often agree with you, but equating a military operation to take out the leader of the terrorist organisation responsible for 9/11 amongst (many) others with those two events is wrong. Bin Laden was a legitimate target, the two incidents you referenced were not.
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I agree with this though Blue Mist has an argument re Bin Laden morally whether I agree with it or not. But I firmly do NOT agree with his implication that there is a connection in terms of actual operations. Moral question aside, more important to me is that all the history written about the event shows the US took incredible pains to ensure they had their man in OBL’s case (plus the Islamic burial) as opposed to going off half-cocked the way both the NK shellfish divers and the VZ boat events were handled.
 
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Blue Mist said:
Ok. So Bin Laden by your thinking was a legit target.
What about his second in command ? Take him out ?
Bin Ladens son, influenced by dad = terrorist, take him out ?
Where down the 'we will kill all terrorists' line do you stop ?

Let's look at the UK, why did we not kill Gerry Adams ?
Martin McGuinness ?

If you decide, as a government, that laws don't matter, what kind of government are you..... the government of Russia, Afghanistan, any African country you care to name?
Finally I will mention Nelson Mandela.
A convicted terrorist..... and yet we now celebrate him.
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2nd in command, yes a target
Son, has he committed or ordered others to commit terrorist attacks in which innocent people died?
Adams, not convicted of terrorism as far as I'm aware? I'm no expert on those times tbh.
MM, atrocities yes, on a scale far lower than Bin Laden though wouldn't you agree? Not a legitimate target.

Mandela is a ridiculous comparison tbh

Let me turn it around, is Putin a legitimate target in your eyes? Would Hitler have been?
 
flook said:
2nd in command, yes a target
Son, has he committed or ordered others to commit terrorist attacks in which innocent people died?
Adams, not convicted of terrorism as far as I'm aware? I'm no expert on those times tbh.
MM, atrocities yes, on a scale far lower than Bin Laden though wouldn't you agree? Not a legitimate target.

Mandela is a ridiculous comparison tbh

Let me turn it around, is Putin a legitimate target in your eyes? Would Hitler have been?
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You say Adams was never convicted of any terrorist offences. Neither was Bin Laden.
McGuniness was a known leader of the IRA but there was no evidence to put him before a court.
If the UK had taken the US line, both would have been killed/murdered. We followed the rule of law.
You say Adams McGuiness were on a scale far lower than Bin Laden. That is my exact point. Who decides what level you are at ? An American President ? If that is the case no country or person is safe, as we are now seeing.
Putin, the only ones that can legitimately kill him are the Ukrainian people.
Nelson Mandela. A convicted terrorist. The acknowledged leader of a terrorist organisation and yet later a world leader. You say Mandela is a ridiculous comparison, Steve Biko's family would disagree. Beaten to death in a police cell by 5 South African cops. They were never arrested never mind charged. They simply decided they were above the rule of law, just like Trump and Obama.

It seems this clown has clearly watched the film Clear and Present Danger.
 
Blue Maverick said:
Just wait until nothings getting made etc, I just can’t see how this isn’t going to end badly.
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This is not going to help any future foreign investment in the USA. Companies need confidence in their expensive ventures.
Even American Companies will put future expansion plans on hold.

No wonder Pres TS own Companies are examples of failure rather than success.
 
"We ask all broadcasters to refrain from showcasing any disruptions to the President's attendance in any capacity," a memo sent out by the United States Tennis Association (USTA) read. So much for freedom of expression. As usual only if the expression doesn't offend me. I wonder if Farage will comment on this
 
SilverFox2 said:
This is not going to help any future foreign investment in the USA. Companies need confidence in their expensive ventures.
Even American Companies will put future expansion plans on hold.

No wonder Pres TS own Companies are examples of failure rather than success.
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So cheap labour disappears, white people take over (doubt it) will want a proper wage, so prices rise, now do the companies eat the extra cost, I doubt it as shareholders CEOs (who have lined Trumps pocket) want their cake, so pass cost onto consumers who then don’t buy due to the costs, leads to closure of factories as comsumers vote with their feet, leads to unemployment etc etc. Trump is a genius.
 
Blue Maverick said:
So cheap labour disappears, white people take over (doubt it) will want a proper wage, so prices rise, now do the companies eat the extra cost, I doubt it as shareholders CEOs (who have lined Trumps pocket) want their cake, so pass cost onto consumers who then don’t buy due to the costs, leads to closure of factories as comsumers vote with their feet, leads to unemployment etc etc. Trump is a genius.
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Good point you make about wages. Take the motor manufacturing sector, There is North South divide with Detroit having massive wages and Union led in the North with the South eg Georgia having a much lower wage structure.
Perhaps Pres T should look at that before claiming jobs taken by non US people.
 
Grassland Blue said:
At least in the UK we still have checks and balances to prevent the abuse of power, or have I got that wrong?
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Under our constitution the cabinet is a sub committee of the Privy Council, a collection of wise old ministers. They are the senior advisors to the Monarch and can overrule the cabinet and advise the monarch to dissolve parliament. Thus, if we had a rogue PM acting like Trump, the PC can cut him off and render him powerless by this use of the Royal Prerogative. The only way that can be accomplished in USA is impeachment and a guilty verdict (two thirds majority) in the Senate.
Theoretically, if Trump’s cabinet voted against him en masse, he would have to resign. I can’t see either route succeeding.
So yes, we have the checks.
Incidently, Sir John Kerr who was Governor General of Australia, utilised the Royal Prerogative to dismiss PM Gough Whitlam in 1975, by dissolving Parliament.
If you ever wonder what a Constitutional Monarchy actually is, ultimately it is the power of the monarch to defend the constitution by use of the Prerogative.
 
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Earlyriser said:
"We ask all broadcasters to refrain from showcasing any disruptions to the President's attendance in any capacity," a memo sent out by the United States Tennis Association (USTA) read. So much for freedom of expression. As usual only if the expression doesn't offend me. I wonder if Farage will comment on this
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Getting as bad as fucking China, just without the decent take out food.
 
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