The Album Review Club - Week #191 (page 1286) - Harlequin Dream - Boy & Bear

[RobMCFC]

It was hammer that mooted it a few times. But he's still listening to the Lemonheads so doubt we'll hear from him on this one!

Well that's two people that thought about it, and with plenty of negativity already, it should lead to a lively debate.

 

[threespires]

I do remember, which is why I said in my intro that somebody even threatened to nominate TS (but it wasn't me).

I didn't actually twig that was referring to me, possibly I suppose because I didn't consider it a 'threat' as such and I thought someone else had mentioned her too.

For what it's worth had I gone there I'd have nominated one of the two she did during lockdown with Aaron Dessner.

Ultimately the nature of her fame and the response of her fans is more interesting than her music imo.

Chatting to my niece last night about her comment that we should listen to Taylor's version was really revealing. At one level she, and as far as I can tell most of her fans, pore over her songs at a forensic level that puts what we do on here to shame; but they do it in a very specific fashion.

She spoke in some detail about how the song Dear John has different meaning on the later version because of quite subtle changes in the way it's sung. If I'm being honest I was quite surprised that she was making a nuanced argument. But then I said I thought what was most interesting about Dear John was the fact you could already see she knew how to write a bridge and how it's probably her strongest skill as a songwriter. She replied with "what's a bridge?" . I was slightly taken aback but thought fair enough and explained and then used the song Illicit Affairs off another album to illustrate how far Swift sometimes goes to make the bridge the core of the song. She nodded and immediately went back to explaining how the meaning of another song was slightly altered by the passage of time and Swift's experiences in the interim.

The bleeding obvious then hit me like a truck, the reason Swift can, if she wants, use formulaic Antanoff computer generated pap to accompany her words is because her fans aren't actually listening to the music anyway. They are focused almost entirely on the lyrics and how she delivers them, and if not her voice as such, then the phrasing and intonation etc. They are so invested in those elements that the rest of it is if not irrelevant then a very distant second. As long as it's basically danceable or you can wave your hands to it, it's acceptable because it's not the thing they came for.

If an alien arrived and listened to my niece they might conclude that she was describing acting or monologuing to background sounds rather than music. Despite the focus on melody rather than rhythm it's got as much in common with rap as it has traditional pop music. This storytelling focus arguably explains how she harnesses the parasocial dimension of her fame to such massive commercial effect too.

Swift clearly views herself at least in part as a traditional musician and though this album backs that up, with hindsight you can see already the seeds for where her approach ultimately led her and her fan base. I left the conversation with my niece thinking that whenever Swift does do something interesting musically, like the lockdown albums, she probably does it for herself to stay sane rather than any commercial need.

 

[Saddleworth2]

her fans aren't actually listening to the music anyway. They are focused almost entirely on the lyrics and how she delivers them, and if not her voice as such, then the phrasing and intonation etc. They are so invested in those element that the rest of it is if not irrelevant then a very distant second.

You have nailed it there. That is absolutely true. That is also true of Billie Eilish. Not so much Sabrina Carpenter.

I left the conversation with my niece thinking that whenever Swift does do something interesting musically, like the lockdown albums, she probably does it for herself to stay sane rather than any commercial need.

I'm not sure that is true mate. I think she knows exactly what she is doing and why and chose that route long ago. She ha set herself up for a very long career and will carry her fanbase with her through the decades.

 

[RobMCFC]

The bleeding obvious then hit me like a truck, the reason Swift can, if she wants, use formulaic Antanoff computer generated pap to accompany her words is because her fans aren't actually listening to the music anyway. They are focused almost entirely on the lyrics and how she delivers them, and if not her voice as such, then the phrasing and intonation etc.

Again, this is one of the reasons I selected this album as opposed to one of her later albums. To me, her recent albums (what I've heard of them) are push-button music that don't feature real instruments for the most part.

 

[threespires]

I'm not sure that is true mate. I think she knows exactly what she is doing and why and chose that route long ago. She ha set herself up for a very long career and will carry her fanbase with her through the decades.

Oh I agree everything is entirely calculated, I was really just suggesting that if she did do anything artistically stretching it would be for herself rather than the fans, but nothing of that nature would be allowed to threaten the business model.

When she packs it in they might find a bunch of 'lost' demo tapes of free jazz collaborations with Jairus Sharif shoved under her bed!

 

[Saddleworth2]

Oh I agree everything is entirely calculated, I was really just suggesting that if she did do anything artistically stretching it would be for herself rather than the fans, but nothing of that nature would be allowed to threaten the business model.

When she packs it in they might find a bunch of 'lost' demo tapes of free jazz collaborations with Jairus Sharif shoved under her bed!

Somehow I doubt it.

 

[RobMCFC]

Oh I agree everything is entirely calculated

I don't believe that there is an artist alive that doesn't calculate.

Almost every artist is in it to make music that as many people as possible will hear and to reap the commercial benefits from it. There maybe some niche artists who go against the grain but nobody listens to them.

 

[threespires]

Again, this is one of the reasons I selected this album as opposed to one of her later albums. To me, her recent albums (what I've heard of them) are push-button music that don't feature real instruments for the most part.

I understand that though i'm not sure that's uniformally true.

In some ways the two lockdown albums are quite logical distillations of the one we are listening to now (and have much less electronic accompaniment). I think that even at the point of Speak Now her model of very relatable (to her audience) lyrics was basically the core appeal for her fans. We here might be interested in the evolution/devolution of the musical styles and arrangements but I don't think the majority of her actual fans either then or now gave a toss.

The timing of the switch in how she was marketed is interesting too. You view this as not Country and I get that but not just this album but even the following album Red were both promoted predominantly as Country Pop and I think that was entirely deliberate and quite clever. This is the trouble with Swift for me, any discussion of her music ultimately resolves into one about her very strong business acumen.

I'll going to try from now on to stick to critiquing the music though to me it almost misses the point of her.

 

[threespires]

I don't believe that there is an artist alive that doesn't calculate.

Almost every artist is in it to make music that as many people as possible will hear and to reap the commercial benefits from it. There maybe some niche artists who go against the grain but nobody listens to them.

Don't agree at all. I can think of many and know a few musicians for whom commercial success isn't close to being their main driver. They make music for a myriad of reasons.

If per your last sentence your argument is the most driven or calculating ones get the biggest audiences then fair enough but that's far from the totality of music. Not sure James King and The Lonewolves have ever been sober enough to calculate anything but they found their way onto this thread !

 

[bennyboy]

I can remember Ryan Adams releasing 1989.
The start of him getting really shite.
An album so bad that i never thought of listening to the original.

 

[RobMCFC]

Don't agree at all. I can think of many and know a few musicians for whom commercial success isn't close to being their main driver. They make music for a myriad of reasons.

If per your last sentence your argument is the most driven or calculating ones get the biggest audiences then fair enough but that's far from the totality of music. Not sure James King and The Lonewolves have ever been sober enough to calculate anything but they found their way onto this thread !

I think a lot of people like to believe that the music they listen to is superior to what everybody else is listening to (I'm probably one :)) but as I said, almost every artist, is in it for the money at some point.

 

[threespires]

I think a lot of people like to believe that the music they listen to is superior to what everybody else is listening to (I'm probably one :)) but as I said, almost every artist, is in it for the money at some point.

Your final caveat there makes your argument stronger but nonetheless I shall remain the eternal naive optimist in the face of your cynicism ;-)

I'm off now to listen to my obviously superior rare vinyl of Guatemala Toothpaste Corporation's second album :-)

 

[GornikDaze]

Your final caveat there makes your argument stronger but nonetheless I shall remain the eternal naive optimist in the face of your cynicism ;-)

I'm off now to listen to my obviously superior rare vinyl of Guatemala Toothpaste Corporation's second album.

I prefer their debut tbh.

Back to this weeks pick… in my admittedly (thankfully) limited knowledge of country, this doesn’t appear to be it.

It is marginally better than the pick we had recently which had a lot is spoken lyrics. Marginally might be pushing it.

Edit: one listen is enough for me, I even had to turn the volume down on the train just in case people wondered who the 60 something yo listening to TS was.

A quick wiki search confirmed my thoughts of the overall essence in that it is “Reflecting Swift's adolescence, the songs document emotions of affection, grievance, and heartbreak, forming a loose concept album of unspoken confessions.”

Some half decent background elevator music, average vocals - lyrics to whip up a teenage fan base and make millions.

3/10 from this old ****! Back to @Coatigan‘s suggestion which is far more palatable

 

[Saddleworth2]

I think a lot of people like to believe that the music they listen to is superior to what everybody else is listening to (I'm probably one :)) but as I said, almost every artist, is in it for the money at some point.

I'm not having that. Radiohead were in it for the art.

 

[threespires]

I prefer their debut tbh.

Back to this weeks pick… in my admittedly (thankfully) limited knowledge of country, this doesn’t appear to be it.

It is marginally better than the pick we had recently which had a lot is spoken lyrics. Marginally might be pushing it.

I think by the time she wrote this, what qualified as country in the US was a lot broader than we might think of it here. Tbh I think a lot of it isn't about the music itself but what channels and markets the music is going to be promoted in. It's a much bigger place and I think, understandably, segmentation is more relevant than it is here.

Age is catching up with me, what recent pick are you thinking of?

 

[GornikDaze]

I think by the time she wrote this, what qualified as country in the US was a lot broader than we might think of it here. Tbh I think a lot of it isn't about the music itself but what channels and markets the music is going to be promoted in. It's a much bigger place and I think, understandably, segmentation is more relevant than it is here.

Age is catching up with me, what recent pick are you thinking of?

English Teacher (shudders!) was the one, although I’ve tried to forget it.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Your final caveat there makes your argument stronger but nonetheless I shall remain the eternal naive optimist in the face of your cynicism ;-)

I'm off now to listen to my obviously superior rare vinyl of Guatemala Toothpaste Corporation's second album :-)

In all seriousness, I'm not sure I agree with Rob's cynical statement ;-).
I believe some artists make the music that they believe in and want to make, and as a consequence of others liking what they are doing, they earn a living.
Folks got to live and earn a crust but many still have a level of artistic integrity that transcends financial matters.
Carol King did not plan to make money when she recorded Tapestry. She simply wanted to lay down her very best work in an album. Kate Bush's output is extremely sparse (as is Sade's) because they put artistic integrity before making billions. There are hundreds of better examples I'm sure. After all, nobody plays jazz to make a fortune :-).

 

[threespires]

Speak Now

Wholly self penned I believe which is impressive for someone who was still a teen (or not far off I suspect?)

The music is mostly cookie cutter country pop with well worn chord progressions that are well worn basically because they work. Every now and then she does something a bit more interesting in a longer form song to suggest she knows what she's doing.

Lyrically, though it's hardly profound it has well constructed narratives that, though mostly unrelatable for me personally, seem to resonate strongly with her target market. In fact I'd say that though she's speaking to a different audience about a different type of (more interior life) American experience her adroitness with words is the equal to say that of Springsteen, though the overall storytelling is a bit weaker by virtue of a limited palette of experiences.

Her voice is nothing to write home about but it's used very cleverly within it's limitations, playing to her strengths around rhythm and intonation. The delivery, rather than underlying voice quality, are a key part of why her narratives are successful for her I think.

She knows how to write a middle eight to enhance a song, thinking about the other stuff of hers I've heard it might be her single strongest skill.

The playing is very competent and polished if somewhat uninspired and there is a traditional but pleasing enough variety of instruments and arrangements.

Does she have some talent? I think it would be daft to suggest not. Is she exceptionally talented in the conventional musical sense? I don't think so but what she is absolutely brilliant at is knowing herself and playing to her strengths.

Though not as machine like as some of her later stuff you can see in this the early template for her ruthlessly efficient approach to music. Whether that's worthy of praise or blame I don't know.

This is with the benefit of hindsight but it's a bit like watching a baby shark, it's got a slight cuteness to it but look at it objectively and it's basically an apex predator in the making.

It's impressive but I don't want to get in and swim with it thanks very much.

6.5/10 because its very competent but doesn't really speak to me

Edit: Currently wondering if I wanted to get into country rock would I be better off going with her or have a crack at Eagles? I'm leaning towards the former but advice and opinions welcome.

 

[RobMCFC]

Speak Now

Wholly self penned I believe which is impressive for someone who was still a teen (or not far off I suspect?)

The music is mostly cookie cutter country pop with well worn chord progressions that are well worn basically because they work. Every now and then she does something a bit more interesting in a longer form song to suggest she knows what she's doing.

Lyrically, though it's hardly profound it has well constructed narratives that, though mostly unrelatable for me personally, seem to resonate strongly with her target market. In fact I'd say that though she's speaking to a different audience about a different type of (more interior life) American experience her adroitness with words is the equal to say that of Springsteen, though the overall storytelling is a bit weaker by virtue of a limited palette of experiences.

Her voice is nothing to write home about but it's used very cleverly within it's limitations, playing to her strengths around rhythm and intonation. The delivery, rather than underlying voice quality, are a key part of why her narratives are successful for her I think.

She knows how to write a middle eight to enhance a song, thinking about the other stuff of hers I've heard it might be her single strongest skill.

The playing is very competent and polished if somewhat uninspired and there is a traditional but pleasing enough variety of instruments and arrangements.

Does she have some talent? I think it would be daft to suggest not. Is she exceptionally talented in the conventional musical sense? I don't think so but what she is absolutely brilliant at is knowing herself and playing to her strengths.

Though not as machine like as some of her later stuff you can see in this the early template for her ruthlessly efficient approach to music. Whether that's worthy of praise or blame I don't know.

This is with the benefit of hindsight but it's a bit like watching a baby shark, it's got a slight cuteness to it but look at it objectively and it's basically an apex predator in the making.

It's impressive but I don't want to get in and swim with it thanks very much.

6.5/10 because its very competent but doesn't really speak to me

Edit: Currently wondering if I wanted to get into country rock would I be better off going with her or have a crack at Eagles? I'm leaning towards the former but advice and opinions welcome.

A fair assessment, I think.

The middle-8s and bridges are something that I picked up on, and some of those coming into and out of the choruses are brilliant. I was also going to make a similar point about Springsteen. Like the Boss, Taylor Swift knows her target market and seems very good at getting her songs over to them.

As for country rock - start with Steve Earle's Copperhead Road album - I think you know the song but maybe not the album?

 

[threespires]

A fair assessment, I think.

The middle-8s and bridges are something that I picked up on, and some of those coming into and out of the choruses are brilliant. I was also going to make a similar point about Springsteen. Like the Boss, Taylor Swift knows her target market and seems very good at getting her songs over to them.

As for country rock - start with Steve Earle's Copperhead Road album - I think you know the song but maybe not the album?

Think we've discussed the whole album before and I am indeed a fan. That comment was really to do with the fact I'd gone a whole two hours without saying anything fatuous and it was beginning to stress me out.