The Album Review Club - Week #191 (page 1286) - Harlequin Dream - Boy & Bear

OB1 said:
You mention that you can take certain tracks out on a stand alone basis and listen to them individually, which is absolutely the case. I am pretty sure that last time I did a driving holiday in the U.S. (3 years ago), three tracks from the album popped up regularly on classic rock radio stations. However, not one from WYWH did. So, whilst, WYWH is my favourite Floyd album and has my fave Floyd track, one of the reasons I put DSOTM ahead in the greatest album stakes is things like the enduring popularity of tracks from the album on radio in the largest market for rock music.
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Those tracks on WYWH other than the title track and "Have A Cigar" never have a chance on "classic rock stations", which is why I don't listen to... CRS. ;-)
OB1 said:
Maybe one day I'll put WYWH forward for review: it is on my long list and I have already written a review of it!

By the way, I don't actually think it is possible to pick a greatest album of all-time although I often say it is DOTM, but that's me trying to overly objective: cos I really want to say Led Zep IV.
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You aren't alone brother, you aren't alone!
 
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RobMCFC said:
I was going to say as part of my review that I'm generally disappointed when I listen to the "Greatest Albums of all time" or the "Biggest selling albums of all time."

DSOTM - see review above.
Back in Black - fabulous title track with an epic riff, not really bothered about anything else on the album.
Born To Run - good album but not as good as the Bruce albums released either side of it.
Rumours - actually very good and not too many negatives in this case.
Various Beatles albums - some amazing songs but generally some right old rubbish mixed in there as well
etc.
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You lost me on Bruce, AC/DC, and the Beatles. Other than that, we agree! ;-)
 
Having heard snippets of this off adverts or in the background I was surprised at how familiar this felt despite never having given it a full listen. That really has to come down to its age and how influential it is having been used by so many.
One of my take aways was that Alex Patterson/Orb just took this and ran away. On later checking I found this was confirmed.
It did seem to flow (save the clocks) and my main thought from the first listen was that most of the population must have been stoners at the time.
A first full listen and I get that it is good but not sure about its lofty status in the pantheon of music.
 
RobMCFC said:
I was going to say as part of my review that I'm generally disappointed when I listen to the "Greatest Albums of all time" or the "Biggest selling albums of all time."

DSOTM - see review above.
Back in Black - fabulous title track with an epic riff, not really bothered about anything else on the album.
Born To Run - good album but not as good as the Bruce albums released either side of it.
Rumours - actually very good and not too many negatives in this case.
Various Beatles albums - some amazing songs but generally some right old rubbish mixed in there as well
etc.

I think a term that you use often, favourite album of all time has much more meaning. Whilst there's a chance that 1000s of people feel to same as you do about your favourites, the music is not weighed down by tags such as "best", "biggest", "classic" status like some of the above are.
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Apart from The Beatles, fully agree with you on all those, and your general point Rob.
 
Black&White&BlueMoon Town said:
You lost me on Bruce, AC/DC, and the Beatles. Other than that, we agree! ;-)
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I owe you at least a half serious reply on things, even though I do not wish to take away from the current album at hand that I have listened to my required 30+ times, years before this nomination. But I will do the obligatory 1 that BimboBob recommends this week.

For Bruce, I'll give you Darkness on occasion if you are in a raw and gritty/PO'd mood over BTR, but "No Surrender" on BTR over The Wild, the Innocent & the E Street Shuffle, even though you are essentially giving me a Sophie's Choice on the matter on the artist in question.

And at the risk of taking someone else's thunder because I will not be nominating AC/DC's Back in Black, it is so much more than the title track that I don't even want to go into it in degrees at this point as the nomination here is quite a real potential, and I'll be on record once it comes to be. Suffice to say you don't want to know what the 14 year old me thought of that album in hearing that band for the first time is all I will say at this time on the matter. "Shoot To Thrill" wasn't even a single from the 4 that were, but it remains my favourite track on the album that remains the best release and remake of a band that there ever was after losing their lead singer, the second which will also be soon to be revealed in the Evolution of Rock thread, coming sometime soon. ;-)
 
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This album is a bit like a rare cask finish or higher end aged whisky, that sits in the back of the cupboard for occasional use. It is complex, smooth, mature and rich, and an enjoyable one off experience every so often. But savour it and then back in the cupboard it goes till the next random urge or special occasion.

I am in the 'listen to it in one go' camp here, and while I do have favourite stretches, think it works best as a piece. Also do think they have better individual songs on other albums, possibly even better albums, but then there is something about this one as a whole. Surprised it never got the film treatment like The Wall or other similar dramatisation beyond music endeavours by them, but maybe that makes it purer.

Overall, enjoyed the revisit. Agree with bimbo, 3 listens in one week is both unnecessary and maybe lessens the impact. Thanks for the nomination Gornik, back in the cupboard it goes. 7.
 
RobMCFC said:
Surely, that is the MO of the Radiohead fan, no?
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Of course it is, a point I have made numerous times, except young people can be forgiven as they always were in the 70s (and 80s) when it came to this record too. Who shouldn’t be forgiven are Radiohead who is and always has been a next-generation Pink Floyd clone. But Pink Floyd wasn’t really a clone of anyone, which is why they can get away with a record like this. Also PF has, you know, hooks.

I know I have been absent for bit but I can’t pass this one by. For now I’ll repeat what I’ve also said many times — Wish You Were Here will always be my favo(u)rite Pink Floyd record because a) it has their best song on it and b) it’s a difficult, personal farewell record to a friend vs. Dark Side, which is more a panegyric on the world, as Jonathan Swift would have put it. And Alan Parsons always subtracts as much as he adds.

That said, “And then one day you find / Ten years have got behind you / No one told you when to run / You missed the starting gun” is one of my favo(u)rite lyrics of all time. It’s undeniable.
 
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I love this album.

As I said when I nominated Revolver, I couldn't really get the music of the mid 80s as it just didn't really seem to connect with me. Bands like Bon Jovi, Def Leopard etc etc just passed me by really. When I accidentally came across Revolver and DSOTM in my Dad's record collection that's when I got it, but it was deeply unfashionable back then to like "retro" music especially for a young kid.

This album is a classic and one of the finest ever produced by any artist. It's beautiful, brilliantly produced, clever, thoughtful and ends triumphantly and fits together brilliantly. It's like a classical piece of music and quite honestly could easily be placed with the great composers from this century and not look out of place.

I know these albums can be seen as pretentious, but I'd rather have something like this than the generic "she doesn't love me/I am misunderstood" kind of thing that's been done a million times. The musicianship, production, everything on this album is pretty much perfect.

Of all the great concept albums made in the history of rock I would put Sgt Pepper and DSOTM as the best 2 and I'd put OK Computer by Radiohead in 3rd place. I feel OK Computer is the "heir" to DSOTM.

Anyway this is the easiest 10 I've given!
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
Of course it is, a point I have made numerous times, except young people can be forgiven as they always were in the 70s (and 80s) when it came to this record too. Who shouldn’t be forgiven are Radiohead who is and always has been a next-generation Pink Floyd clone. But Pink Floyd wasn’t really a clone of anyone, which is why they can get away with a record like this. Also PF has, you know, hooks.

I know I have been absent for bit but I can’t pass this one by. For now I’ll repeat what I’ve also said many times — Wish You Were Here will always be my favo(u)rite Pink Floyd record because a) it has their best song on it and b) it’s a difficult, personal farewell record to a friend vs. Dark Side, which is more a panegyric on the world, as Jonathan Swift would have put it. And Alan Parsons always subtracts as much as he adds.

That said, “And then one day you find / Ten years have got behind you / No one told you when to run / You missed the starting gun” is one of my favo(u)rite lyrics of all time. It’s undeniable.
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Had to look up the word panegyric :)

I think you are being very reductive in your criticism of Radiohead. I've not listened to enough Pink Floyd to offer a definitive defence but to describe RH as simply a PF clone is short sighted. I pointed out a couple of points of divergence in my review. I would say both bands are in the same tradition and using many of the same techniques but they are utilising them differently with often PF going to a prettier conclusion. I probably can't articulate it well but Radiohead build their songs particularly later by adding complexity rather than volume and they both use guitar solos very differently

I also think there is a blues element in DSOTM that is not evident in RH stuff. Money is a blues jam over a jazz time signature and I think many of the solos are drawing on some of that.
 
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mrbelfry said:
Had to look up the word panegyric :)

I think you are being very reductive in your criticism of Radiohead. I've not listened to enough Pink Floyd to offer a definitive defence but to describe RH as simply a PF clone is short sighted. I pointed out a couple of points of divergence in my review. I would say both bands are in the same tradition and using many of the same techniques but they are utilising them differently with often PF going to a prettier conclusion. I probably can't articulate it well but Radiohead build their songs particularly later by adding complexity rather than volume and they both use guitar solos very differently

I also think there is a blues element in DSOTM that is not evident in RH stuff. Money is a blues jam over a jazz time signature and I think many of the solos are drawing on some of that.
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I didn’t describe them as “simply” a PF clone. Being a PF clone is one of their many sins, but not remotely close to their worst one. Contempt for and manipulation of their audience is worse, for example. The clone part isn’t about specifics — it’s about generalities; i.e. using production atmospherics as a way to lift music “higher” as a rule. I find this pretentious and annoying and what a posh band gets to do, even if it sometimes sounds good. This is why neither band ever played the CBGB, and why “Wish You Were Here” is by miles and miles Pink Floyd’s best song — because it forgoes said production over-processing and substitutes real, raw, pain to lift up the music.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
I don’t describe them as “simply” a PF clone. Being a PF clone is one of their many sins, but not remotely close to their worst one. Contempt for and manipulation of their audience is worse, for example. The clone part isn’t about specifics — it’s about generalities; i.e. using production atmospherics as a way to lift music “higher” as a rule. I find this pretentious and annoying, even if it sometimes sounds good. This is why neither band ever played the CBGB, and why “Wish You Were Here” is by miles and miles Pink Floyd’s best song — because it forgoes said production over-processing and substitutes real, raw, pain to lift up the music.
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The atmospherics are legit part of the tool kit. Sure I get it's pretentious. I've said previously I don't mind pretentious because at a very fundamental level i believe all music is pretentious. We all experience many of the same human emotions - a musicians puts there's to music and sings about using many affectations and techniques to express their emotions which I fully refuse to believe they are experiencing to the same degree every time they sing. If they do what a weird thing for us to sit, judge and applaud.

I fully understand that this is a very cynical understanding which is maybe why I like Radiohead :)

In any event having the "did they play the CBGB" as an indicator to how good a band is won't steer you to wrong
 
GoatersLeftShin said:
I love this album.

As I said when I nominated Revolver, I couldn't really get the music of the mid 80s as it just didn't really seem to connect with me. Bands like Bon Jovi, Def Leopard etc etc just passed me by really. When I accidentally came across Revolver and DSOTM in my Dad's record collection that's when I got it, but it was deeply unfashionable back then to like "retro" music especially for a young kid.

This album is a classic and one of the finest ever produced by any artist. It's beautiful, brilliantly produced, clever, thoughtful and ends triumphantly and fits together brilliantly. It's like a classical piece of music and quite honestly could easily be placed with the great composers from this century and not look out of place.

I know these albums can be seen as pretentious, but I'd rather have something like this than the generic "she doesn't love me/I am misunderstood" kind of thing that's been done a million times. The musicianship, production, everything on this album is pretty much perfect.

Of all the great concept albums made in the history of rock I would put Sgt Pepper and DSOTM as the best 2 and I'd put OK Computer by Radiohead in 3rd place. I feel OK Computer is the "heir" to DSOTM.

Anyway this is the easiest 10 I've given!
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While I don’t want to reopen a can of worms, Thom Yorke saying specifically that OK Computer is not a concept record probably should disqualify it from your list of concept records :).
 
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Onholiday(somemightsay) said:
Not sure I get the Floyd and Radiohead comparisons barring people being utterly opposed to them.

I see the former as groundbreaking with the latter hugely overrated - not really two talents that I tend to compare..............
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See my comment above about production sonics. Add tempos and topic matters too if you want. They’re both “dark” and English. That said, I agree with the first part of your second sentence. I find Pink Floyd’s output uneven but I like it on the whole.
 
RobMCFC said:
I was going to say as part of my review that I'm generally disappointed when I listen to the "Greatest Albums of all time" or the "Biggest selling albums of all time."

DSOTM - see review above.
Back in Black - fabulous title track with an epic riff, not really bothered about anything else on the album.
Born To Run - good album but not as good as the Bruce albums released either side of it.
Rumours - actually very good and not too many negatives in this case.
Various Beatles albums - some amazing songs but generally some right old rubbish mixed in there as well
etc.

I think a term that you use often, favourite album of all time has much more meaning. Whilst there's a chance that 1000s of people feel to same as you do about your favourites, the music is not weighed down by tags such as "best", "biggest", "classic" status like some of the above are.
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I agree with an awful lot of this post. “Favourite”, “best” and “greatest” all have different meanings. I can think of a few huge bands (and some smaller ones) with significant catalog history where those three terms apply to three different records for me.
 
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