The Labour Government

You have misunderstood. I said need.

House paid for. Kids probably already set up. Who in retirement would need an income more than the average wage?
Who needs any more than 1200 calories a day and a roof over their head. You could survive, just about, on that.

Should that be the requirement for pensioners or those on benefits ? Or should people aspire to have something better ?

I note you didnt answer the question posed re capping public sector final salary pensions to 40k or as I think you are now saying 28k (taking into account the state pension).

Maybe we should go down the route of nobody being able to earn over 40k as they would be earning more than the average wage ? We could all then wear the same clothes, live in the same sized flat, with a selection of government approved meals. Sounds delightful, Chairman Mao would be proud.
 
Last edited:
Who needs any more than 1200 calories a day and a roof over their head. You could survive, just about, on that.

Should that be the requirement for pensioners or those on benefits ? Or should people aspire to have something better ?

I note you didnt answer the question posed re capping public sector final salary pensions to 40k or as I think you are now saying 28k (taking into account the state pension).

Maybe we should go down the route of nobody being able to earn over 40k as they would be earning more than the average wage ? We could all then wear the same clothes, live in the same sized flat, with a selection of government approved meals. Sounds delightful, Chairman Mao would be proud.
I've waited a long time on Bluemoon to quote Katherine Whitehorn in the Observer from maybe 60 years ago.

"You don't need 95% of what you buy. You just can't do without it."

I've no idea what the question was about public sector pensions. That's been done to death several times.

And I have no idea why you're extrapolating a simple point - how does anyone with no housing costs need an income of £40k? - into some imagined communist utopia of equality. Why would anyone need government approved meals when Tesco and Sainsbury's sell them at £15 (for two people) including a bottle of wine?
 
One thing I hope Labour bring in is PR. Now I voted Labour but admit they fluked a huge majority on the basis of voters being very pissed off and in effect choosing “none of the above”. Unless they want to hand over to a ragtag of chancers and conmen aka Reform and the Tories, they need to accept they are likely to get stuffed at the next GE and at least give us a chance of a coalition of compromise.
PR would be a step towards a better and fairer country. No ruling party will propose it though. Never
 
I've waited a long time on Bluemoon to quote Katherine Whitehorn in the Observer from maybe 60 years ago.

"You don't need 95% of what you buy. You just can't do without it."

I've no idea what the question was about public sector pensions. That's been done to death several times.

And I have no idea why you're extrapolating a simple point - how does anyone with no housing costs need an income of £40k? - into some imagined communist utopia of equality. Why would anyone need government approved meals when Tesco and Sainsbury's sell them at £15 (for two people) including a bottle of wine?
Look at the government published retirement living standards and come back to me, which clearly states 44k for a comfortable retirement for 1 person and 61k for 2 people on the grand assumption that everyone has paid off their mortgage and lives outside the south east. Thats is in todays values, so whatever you do with your pension, it needs to track inflation and be able to weather stock market downturns. Therefore you need to protect from sequence of returns risk or unlike people with a final salary scheme, you run out of money and become a burden on the state in old age. For a household income for 2 people, it assumes both people have pensions, in reality most households will have one person who was the bread winner and the other who did part time work and handled the bulk of caring responsibilities, whether that be for children or caring for elderly parents. Couple that with it only becoming mandatory to offer a pension for small employers since 2018 and you might see the problem.

Now I've been kind enough to provide you a response to your question, could you extend me the same courtesy.

Im not asking for an opinion on final salary pensions in the public sector per se, what Im asking is, if you honestly believe 40k is enough in retirement, should we cap both final salary public sector pensions at £28k (40k when combined with the state pension) along with private sector ones (so around £700k in a DC pension and mandating the buying of a life annuity).

If so fair enough, thats a valid position, if not then asking if someone needs it or not is a moot point unless you are advocating an additional tax across everyone in retirement who exceeds that income.
 
Last edited:
Well it was not in the red tops.
They are forecast to go after pensions with more taxation.You could lose up to 67% of the money some one worked hard and was taxed on.The labour party are the party of the unions which equals high taxation.The tories and labour are both useless.Just wait till Farage gets in u think its bad now
Just wait!
Our country is completely fucked.
Everyone needs to take responsibility for themselves and not rely on the state.
So nothing from you about passing pensions on to spouses. Whatever happens to IHT won't affect spouses but may after that-let's see. I was on a Committee for a union. We were not affilitated to any political party. Our national officer was paid around £50k per year and oversaw 160k members.

I agree about Farage-it really would be a disaster as has been anything he's touched so far.

It's easy to say no one should rely on the state when you are lucky enough not to need to. But where are you drawing the line?
 
Trying to avoid austerity by running huge deficits and having to bump up taxation by £40bn each year, every year.

Absolute corker.
Thanks.
So if the government of any colour decides to drastically cut the deficit and at the same time not take in the level of taxes it needs to run public services, what is the inevitable outcome?

Any idea which public services you're happy to lose ot have cut?
 
Last edited:
I guess as always the difficult thing to define is what is very wealthy. Someone who is 30 with 2m in the bank and has another 30 years plus to grow it, is very different to someone who is 67 with 2m in a pension.

I dont disagree that excessive wealth should be taxed but also you need to have an incentive to do as best as you can in life. Everyone needs to pay more and those who are at the bottom end of the income spectrum need lifting out of tax completely and if you were brave enough and radical enough, it could be done, but it would mean putting around 5% on income tax at every level. The problem is politics gets in the way of doing what is necessary.

As regards luck, well luck is if you win the lottery or if you are born to wealthy parents. But purely by virtue of being born in the western world you have won relative to virtually everyone born in the developing world, yet most wouldn't say they are lucky.

Personally I could have left school and gone to work on a building site like most of my mates, probably earned a decent wage, but instead I went through A levels, Degree and then whilst working a Masters and a PhD (both of which I funded). By doing so that has afforded me a good job with a very good salary. I wasn't born into a family that were interested in accademia or had any money, my dad worked a manual job and my mam, when she could, worked part time in a sewing factory. Yes I had a stable home life and I have no serious ailments, so I suppose you could count that as luck, but thats about it. So in reality I'm probably as lucky as about 50% of the population. But if you view someone in isolation without any concept of how they got to where they are, then everything appears to be purely good fortune.
Well you have just hit the nail on the head

Born in the UK luck
Stable family luck
Where did you get your motivation from? Parents ? Luck? Maybe its just the way you are? Luck

Does Phil Foden get to earn 300k a week because he somehow deserves the sheer fortune of being born with a talent which is luck, his talent is in football rather than ping pong, that is luck.

The general point is life offers opportunities but also blocks them and those opportunities are down to luck. Life is inherently unfair and people should recognise that. It doesnt mean I think we should take excess money off all wealthy people but im not having wealthy people pulling the not fair card.
There is no reason beyond selfishness and greed why some are unwilling to spread a bit more of their luck onto others.
Inequality causes so many societal problems that it actually makes sense. Because when the shit hits the fan like covid, crime, illness, public services and general civil unrest it wont be Lord twatty bollocks or the hedge fund manager that comes to the rescue.
It will be a supermarket worker, nurse, care worker, copper or social worker.
Let me ask you this if everyone got the same amount of luck, born in the right country, good parents, born with motivation but more importantly were lucky enough to have a certain level of intellect then that's a lot of competition. The good job and the good salary suddenly isn't there someone else got it. Loads of clever motivated people are now forced to do lower paid jobs.
I guess one could call that their bad luck.
And someone who still got the big job probably through connections as everyone was after it could wrap his arms around his dosh and say.

"Get the fuck off my money I worked hard and deserved this"

We are actually not that far apart in our thinking tbh but some people with dosh really are spoilt wankers.

As I'm neither poor nor wealthy none of this effects me much outside of paying some more tax which im happy with. I could have gone down your route as an example but I chose not to.
I suppose the question is do you have a choice in who you are for certain things.
 
Look at the government published retirement living standards and come back to me, which clearly states 44k for a comfortable retirement for 1 person and 61k for 2 people on the grand assumption that everyone has paid off their mortgage and lives outside the south east. Thats is in todays values, so whatever you do with your pension, it needs to track inflation and be able to weather stock market downturns. Therefore you need to protect from sequence of returns risk or unlike people with a final salary scheme, you run out of money and become a burden on the state in old age. For a household income for 2 people, it assumes both people have pensions, in reality most households will have one person who was the bread winner and the other who did part time work and handled the bulk of caring responsibilities, whether that be for children or caring for elderly parents. Couple that with it only becoming mandatory to offer a pension for small employers since 2018 and you might see the problem.

Now I've been kind enough to provide you a response to your question, could you extend me the same courtesy.

Im not asking for an opinion on final salary pensions in the public sector per se, what Im asking is, if you honestly believe 40k is enough in retirement, should we cap both final salary public sector pensions at £28k (40k when combined with the state pension) along with private sector ones (so around £700k in a DC pension and mandating the buying of a life annuity).

If so fair enough, thats a valid position, if not then asking if someone needs it or not is a moot point unless you are advocating an additional tax across everyone in retirement who exceeds that income.

Fair points those
 
Yes I’m a pensioner so tell me how my life is better, all my bills have gone up, lost the heating allowance as soon as they came into power also now paying tax so do enlighten me.
Curious as to what bills have gone up as a direct consequence of this government?

Rome wasn’t built in a day and it is going to take at least a decade assuming we are heading in the right direction to get this country back on its feet again. Expecting personal improvement in just 12 months is unrealistic
 
Well you have just hit the nail on the head

Born in the UK luck
Stable family luck
Where did you get your motivation from? Parents ? Luck? Maybe its just the way you are? Luck

Does Phil Foden get to earn 300k a week because he somehow deserves the sheer fortune of being born with a talent which is luck, his talent is in football rather than ping pong, that is luck.

The general point is life offers opportunities but also blocks them and those opportunities are down to luck. Life is inherently unfair and people should recognise that. It doesnt mean I think we should take excess money off all wealthy people but im not having wealthy people pulling the not fair card.
There is no reason beyond selfishness and greed why some are unwilling to spread a bit more of their luck onto others.
Inequality causes so many societal problems that it actually makes sense. Because when the shit hits the fan like covid, crime, illness, public services and general civil unrest it wont be Lord twatty bollocks or the hedge fund manager that comes to the rescue.
It will be a supermarket worker, nurse, care worker, copper or social worker.
Let me ask you this if everyone got the same amount of luck, born in the right country, good parents, born with motivation but more importantly were lucky enough to have a certain level of intellect then that's a lot of competition. The good job and the good salary suddenly isn't there someone else got it. Loads of clever motivated people are now forced to do lower paid jobs.
I guess one could call that their bad luck.
And someone who still got the big job probably through connections as everyone was after it could wrap his arms around his dosh and say.

"Get the fuck off my money I worked hard and deserved this"

We are actually not that far apart in our thinking tbh but some people with dosh really are spoilt wankers.

As I'm neither poor nor wealthy none of this effects me much outside of paying some more tax which im happy with. I could have gone down your route as an example but I chose not to.
I suppose the question is do you have a choice in who you are for certain things.
I fully agree that the levels of inequality we have now are damaging to society. Like you assuming that its applied in a fair manner (which I think is up for debate what fair means), paying more tax is not an issue to try to bridge the gap. The problem however is not the gap between the top 99% and everyone else its the gap between the top 0.1% and the rest. Some of whom, we have little information on what their actual net worth is due to use of offshore british dependencies sheltering their wealth (which i still find abhorrent) or the use of assets which are held but with unrealised capital gains. Maybe using insurance valuations would be a way of determining how much capital gains to pay on physical assets which are held in this way.

I think the subtle difference between my thoughts and yours around luck, is that if we assume 2 people have an equal amount of luck, lets say you have Phil Foden's same background, same talent etc. The only difference being one turns up for training on time, trains hard, listens to their coach etc, the other decides fuck it, im good enough I'll just not bother, I've got other things I'd prefer to be doing. The one who puts in the extra effort will be more successful than the one that didn't and that is fair and equally it fair that he get paid more, maybe not 300k a week bu you get the principle.

I was far from the brightest kid in the class, or the richest or the best supported, but I was determined regardless, not because I wanted money but because I wanted to prove to myself and others I could do it. There was no natural talent it was perseverance. Im not a psychologist or geneticist so I couldn't tell you is perseverance is linked to a genotype. In fact ancestry.com has a bit of an answer https://www.ancestry.com/c/traits-learning-hub/persistence?geo-lang=en

What we need is for people to be given the opportunity and support to be the best version of themselves, which does mean ensuring that kids have a decent start to life and access to good quality education and a warm house to live in with enough nourishment. Its then down to the individual to either choose to grasp the opportunity to thrive or not. Yes not everyone is going to be the next CEO of BP but they might just do much better than they thought they could.

The world around us has been built by people not settling for being comfortable or having an "its good enough" approach to life, its those who have stepped out of their comfort zone, possibly gone against the grain and took risks. Thats what will drive the productivity gains which the government so desperately needs.

I agree that some in society have the approach of wanting to ensure no leg up or ladder exists to allow people to compete with them. Ive seen it in teams Ive managed where people use knowledge as power and are unwilling to share it, particularly with younger people who they see as a threat. That behaviour needs to be nipped in the bud within every walk of life.
 
Curious as to what bills have gone up as a direct consequence of this government?

Rome wasn’t built in a day and it is going to take at least a decade assuming we are heading in the right direction to get this country back on its feet again. Expecting personal improvement in just 12 months is unrealistic
Gas prices, water, electricity, rates and food, clothing have all jumped dramatically in 2025 costing hundreds of pounds more but that’s not why I’m carefully considering my options
 
I have been taxed all my life. Why when i have bought a house improved it payed it off should my daughter be taxed?
Why should my wife and daughter be taxed on my death for a pension lump sum that goes to them?
The most money i have ever earned is 40 k a yr.Worked hard all my 40 yrs in employment never had a penny of the state never moaned about tax.As i approach my retirement have i not payed my dues?
 
Bills have gone up more
But not because of any government policies. We had this debate months ago when Big Joe was blaming the government for his car insurance going up ( it actually went down), his food bills, his council tax. I'm not sure the governmnet has control over coffee prices, what Tesco decide to charge you, or your car insurance etc...
 

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top