Epstein / Andrew Mountbatten Windsor / Maxwell

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johnny crossan said:
We know you are suggesting she has which is a particularly cretinous view of a mother trying to help a child in trouble.
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Her trying to help him out in his late middle age is a non sequitur to the question I asked, which you have conspicuously avoided answering. I’ll ask it one more time: are you suggesting she bears no responsibility, as a parent, for how he ended up?

It’s not a complicated question and capable of a simple answer.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Her trying to help him out in his late middle age is a non sequitur to the question I asked, which you have conspicuously avoided answering. I’ll ask it one more time: are you suggesting she bears no responsibility, as a parent, for how he ended up?

It’s not a complicated question and capable of a simple answer.
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Are you serious? Your trade is built on people accepting responsibility for their actions and lives not trying to lay their transgressions at others' doors. What would your mum say about your mistakes if you blamed her for them I wonder?
 
It is interesting he is going to sheltered at Sandringham.

The police have no power of arrest anywhere on the Sandringham estate…
 
johnny crossan said:
The continuing soap opera on Newsnight as the BBC seeks to expiate its Saville sins with whole programmes devoted to marketing the sobbing family's book is truly sickening. Now some BM sages are trying to blame Andrew's parents for his conduct - utterly contemptible.
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If you raise and protect a nonce, then the parents will surely face some scrutiny.
 
johnny crossan said:
Are you serious? Your trade is built on people accepting responsibility for their actions and lives not trying to lay their transgressions at others' doors. What would your mum say about your mistakes if you blamed her for them I wonder?
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My mother bears some responsibility for the warm, funny, empathetic and generous person I am today, yes.

And you still haven’t answered the fucking question.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
My mother bears some responsibility for the warm, funny, empathetic and generous person I am today, yes.

And you still haven’t answered the fucking question.
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..but not the less desirable elements of your personality or indeed actions in your life it seems. That's a real pettifogger's reply and completely disingenuous. I repeat - your trying to blame the late Queen for this man's conduct is simply disgusting.
 
johnny crossan said:
..but not the less desirable elements of your personality or indeed actions in your life it seems. That's a real pettifogger's reply and completely disingenuous. I repeat - your trying to blame the late Queen for this man's conduct is simply disgusting.
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Still haven’t answered the fucking question.
 
Chippy_boy said:
I've not read all this thread so forgive me if this has already been discussed.

But I am troubled by the treatment of Andrew. Not because I am a fan of his. Far from it - I gather he's not a particularly nice bloke irrespective of his involvement with Epstein and the Virginia Giuffre scandal.

But in our generally civilised country, we work on the basis of innocent until proven guilty. People accused of crimes are judged either by magistrates or by a jury, and in the absence of any such trial or guilty verdict, they are by definition innocent.

Andrew is innocent of any crime relating to Epstein or Giuffre. This fact may not sit comfortably with his many detractors, but it is the case.

It cannot be right that anyone - prince or otherwise - is hounded out of their home and stripped of their wealth or possessions by an angry mob baying for blood. No matter how much we may be convinced "well he did do it, didn't he". Rightly we don't do kangaroo courts in the UK.

So the way the media in particular have gone after him, I find troubling. He maintains throughout that he has done nothing wrong, and we have no idea whether that is true or not. Yes his paying off Giuffre looks bad. But we should not assume that is indicative of guilt. As @gordondaviesmoustache points out, there's other reasons why the royal family may have thought that was preferable to a public spectacle in court. And whether it does or it doesn't, the fact remains he is innocent under the law.

<Stands back and awaits the inevitable abuse from the usual suspects. Tommy Robinson will likely be mentioned.>
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I think this is a fair point, though it has now been proven that he lied about the end/continuation of his friendship with Epstein.
 
Donmcfc said:
Why doesn't the nonce come out and prove his innocence?
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I've no idea - I haven't asked him.

Maybe it's because he's guilty? Or maybe it's because he doesn't want to risk a court finding him guilty when he isn't. Or maybe it's because he didn't want details of activities which whilst not illegal, were pretty unsavory, airing in court? And now? Maybe because he can't afford the vast legal fees it would invariably involve? There can be a myriad of reasons.
 
oldius said:
I think this is a fair point, though it has now been proven that he lied about the end/continuation of his friendship with Epstein.
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And that also is a fair point. But lying about a friendship with an unsavory character is hardly as bad as being accused - no, determined by public opinion - of being a sex offender.
 
Chippy_boy said:
I've not read all this thread so forgive me if this has already been discussed.

But I am troubled by the treatment of Andrew. Not because I am a fan of his. Far from it - I gather he's not a particularly nice bloke irrespective of his involvement with Epstein and the Virginia Giuffre scandal.

But in our generally civilised country, we work on the basis of innocent until proven guilty. People accused of crimes are judged either by magistrates or by a jury, and in the absence of any such trial or guilty verdict, they are by definition innocent.
it, didn't he". Rightly we don't do kangaroo courts in the UK.

So the way the media in particular have gone after him, I find troubling. He maintains throughout



Andrew is innocent of any crime relating to Epstein or Giuffre. This fact may not sit comfortably with his many detractors, but it is the case.



It cannot be right that anyone - prince or otherwise - is hounded out of their home and stripped of their wealth or possessions by an angry mob baying for blood. No matter how much we may be convinced "well he did do
that he has done nothing wrong, and we have no idea whether that is true or not. Yes his paying off Giuffre looks bad. But we should not assume that is indicative of guilt. As @gordondaviesmoustache points out, there's other reasons why the royal family may have thought that was preferable to a public spectacle in court. And whether it does or it doesn't, the fact remains he is innocent under the law.

<Stands back and awaits the inevitable abuse from the usual suspects. Tommy Robinson will likely be mentioned.>
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Do you honestly think you are ever going to see the evidence against him and whether it will be in an open court?
 
johnny crossan said:
The Queen said nothing and was 96 suffering from advanced bone cancer when this happened in 2022. She died after 70 selfless years of service to this country eighteen months later. I'll bet your parents would do all they could to help you in the same situation too. Another really unpleasant comment, shame on you and anybody else endorsing such depressing abuse
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johnny crossan said:
We know you are suggesting she has which is a particularly cretinous view of a mother trying to help a child in trouble.
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So in your world there is no such crime as aiding and abetting... mother or not
 
johnny crossan said:
The Queen said nothing and was 96 suffering from advanced bone cancer when this happened in 2022. She died after 70 selfless years of service to this country eighteen months later. I'll bet your parents would do all they could to help you in the same situation too. Another really unpleasant comment, shame on you and anybody else endorsing such depressing abuse
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She wasn't a volunteer, fella, she was bestowed with immense wealth and privilege as a result of that service. Effectively, it was her job. As a consequence of that job, she was able to give away £12m to protect her son from facing court. In my view, that is not a good look.

I absolutely respect your point that a mother will do what they can to protect their children, so I do not think she is entirely to blame here. He brought this on and appears to have repeatedly abused trafficked minors supplied to him by a convicted sex offender. If this were not the Royal Family, I suspect many more people would not dream of defending them. She may have been a fantastic woman - I have never met her. She may have been highly skilled at her job - I don't know enough about her job to analyse her skillset. She did, however, raise a family who appear not to respect their roles, their marriages, or their debt to the nation.
 
johnny crossan said:
As a mod and more importantly as a human being you should not be promoting IRA propaganda lies on here.
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I think it is your belief that this is IRA propaganda.
We all are aware that paedophiles, especially powerful ones, have evaded justice for years, and who is going to speak up and advocate for orphans giving evidence against royalty?

en.wikipedia.org

Kincora Boys' Home - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Chippy_boy said:
And that also is a fair point. But lying about a friendship with an unsavory character is hardly as bad as being accused - no, determined by public opinion - of being a sex offender.
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He isn't an unsavoury character, he is a convicted sex offender.
It is correct that Andrew has not been charged and convicted in the same way.
I don't think that will ever happen because of the death of his main accuser. The other victims of Epstein seem unable to speak out for their own safety. Majorie Taylor Greene has said that she will speak on their behalf. Time will tell and, hopefully, the truth will out.
 
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