Referees' Performances | 2025/26

meltonblue said:
Yep and looking again at the automated one, it does look like they’ve done that if you keep the line going up. I just don’t think they’ve used the right frame.

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Even if they have, the position of the line they've drawn is completely subjective - where is the "bottom of the armpit"? The fact that it falls just in the right place to put Guimarães foot onside tells you all you need to know about the PL/PiGMOL corruption that is trying to stop us competing.
 
meltonblue said:
Yep and looking again at the automated one, it does look like they’ve done that if you keep the line going up. I just don’t think they’ve used the right frame.

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I think the lines a bit further forward than it should be and it's also the wrong frame used.
It's really hard to tell though as I think these diagrams are meant to be used just as visualisation tools and not as an exact simulation, it certainly looks like the simulation image is based on the moment after the ball had been played which is why Dias is shown midair.
Unfortunately, all this stuff is just smoke and mirrors where we have to accept the decision we're given as nobody outside of PGMOL has any idea or insight into how these decisions are made or calculated.
If that was given in real time I wouldn't care as it's such a close decision that the player wasn't getting any kind of advantage. Unfortunately, we've now brought in technology which has destroyed so many of the key elements of what made football great as it was decided that it was better to be accurate and correct than it was to be free-flowing and exciting yet somehow ended up with the worst of all possible worlds with dull games full of cheating, diving, timewasting, thuggery and playacting who's results are being decided not by the players on the pitch or the managers tactics but by weak, inconsistent, cowardly, incorrect refereeing decisions and non-decisions. The Premier League is now like watching European football where the team that cheats the most and gets away with it invariably wins the game.
 
homerdog said:
Even if they have, the position of the line they've drawn is completely subjective - where is the "bottom of the armpit"? The fact that it falls just in the right place to put Guimarães foot onside tells you all you need to know about the PL/PiGMOL corruption that is trying to stop us competing.
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Humans don’t draw the lines with offsides anymore. It’s done by AI.
 
Same offside mistake in the Vila game. Now no one can say it's specifically aimed at City, and I wonder which example they will use to debate this?
 
Stiff Little Wingers said:
Just like the goalie handball that so influenced the cup final.
Just like the Rashford offside
It's got to be corruption - what other explanation is there?
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There’s no coincidence these decisions are against the same club the PL brought 130 charges against.

It’s fucking rotten, our mistake was to pull out of the super league.
We should have jumped ship and let the PL die a death.
 
Our auto offside is not the one they use anywhere else the premier didn’t want to use it because they wanted there own one that I presume this company is paying for that setup
 
www.premierleague.com

Semi-automated offside technology: What you need to know

Ahead of semi-automated offside technology (SAOT) being used in the Premier League this weekend, here is more information as to how it will work
www.premierleague.com www.premierleague.com

Some relevant points from above in relation to last nights VAR cock-up

“To determine close offside calls, the VAR currently needs to work with replay operators (RO) to manually determine the "kick-point" for the offside decision and then "draw" calibrated lines with a crosshair on the relevant defender and attacker, using multiple camera angles”.

“Once the lines and kick-point are determined, an "offside" or "onside" decision is generated”

“Semi-automated offside technology will suggest a "kick point" and automatically create offside lines on the second rear-most defender and the relevant attacker – saving significant time in determining whether a player is onside or offside.”

“Once the semi-automated offside technology-generated outcome has been reviewed and approved by the VAR, a decision visual will be automatically generated and distributed to fans in the stadium and to the media.”

“The technology is "semi-automated", meaning there is human input as the VAR still needs to confirm the decision and that the SAOT system has accurately identified the "kick-point" and the correct players with the correct part of the body – and the outcome of the SAOT”

So according to above
VAR has to confirm the “kick point” chosen by the software
Meaning I guess they would have the option to change it, this IMHO was done last night and is why Dias is jumping.
Clear and deliberate manipulation of the true kick point to ensure the goal stood
Dawson and the VAR crew should be charged with fraud
City should demand and public explanation of why this was done they will have plenty of their own evidence and ask for PiGMOL for the source data and audio files
This is not a subjective decision like the LFC disallowed goal last week this is a matter of fact
 
waspish said:
Our auto offside is not the one they use anywhere else the premier didn’t want to use it because they wanted there own one that I presume this company is paying for that setup
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FIFA use one which utilises the patented Adidas technology chip in the ball that determines the kick point
Not sure about UEFA’s
PL uses 30 cameras which the technology builds the images from and suggests a kick point thus can be manipulated
 
Another thing about that offside that annoys me is that it's supposed to be about "gaining an unfair advantage". Many of us have said that having your big toe in front of the last but one defending player really doesn't fit that criterion.

When you look at that decision yesterday, Guimares is nowhere near Dias, but he's well ahead of the players nearest him, so he's clearly gaining an unfair advantage by being in that position. If Dias had been on the far touchline in that passage of play, they'd still judge the offside against him. That scenario yesterday should be unequivocally offside under the spirit of the Offside Law. But they've pissed about with it so much, they've completely negated that spirit of gaining an unfair advantage.
 
Blue Abroad said:
After having a sleep to calm down a bit, I think I have decided that the referee allowing the persistent, cynical, dangerous fouling by Newcastle players bothers me more than the offside goal.

It was offside—and I think Donnarumma was fouled in the build up—but at least that decision was genuinely tight. The outcome gives the impression of manipulation to get a desired result, but that was only possible because it was so close to begin with.

But the blatant “cycle of kicking” on Cherki, the repeated holds and late challenges to prevent promising counters, and the cynical fouling (barges, stamps, elbows, and the studs up challenge on Phil in the box) weren’t “close” decisions. They were obvious, conscious choices not to adequately protect or players and punish players for violating the laws of the game.

And the ref didn’t even call all the actual fouls. He gave “advantages” several times that were anything but, and let a few fairly obvious fouls go for reasons that are only known to him. I think they really got one yellow for likely ~18 fouls, whilst we got a yellow for every 2.66 fouls. That screams intention.

Seeing Cherki kicked out of the game (and Haaland constantly bear hugged with little consequence) was infuriating and I am fairly sure it was the main topic of Pep’s visit to the official’s dressing room.

VAR getting the tight offside call wrong is one thing, but watching the officials (including VAR) ignore (arguably even encourage) Newcastle’s anti-football tactics over and over and over again was absolutely infuriating. I can feel my blood pressure rising just thinking about it right now (maybe because I was often on the end of it during my more humble playing days).

Oh, and I think the pull back of Doku in full stride as he was running into the box was as much a penalty as Schar’s ankle breaker on Phil.

One bad decision in a game can happen. Two bad decisions can be mistakes. Three bad decisions can be incompetence.

But four or more bad decisions, in the era of VAR?

That stretches credibility.
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Really well put mate and I totally agree. In the first half I was asking what is the City allowance for fouling before refs give cards. It’s seemed apparent to me well before this game that there seems to be leeway for opposing teams, but yesterday seemed as obvious as ever. Since when does the fact that the player has played the ball allow a player to scythe him down as happened to Foden. It was as blatant a card and pen as you will see. Genuine question. Does anyone think the ridiculous scouse whining for the last 2 weeks had an effect on the reffing performance yesterday? I’m trying figure out why it was obviously biased. Were they looking to redress some perceived advantage?
 
My biggest issue with the Foden ‘penalty’ was that Pawson didn’t think it worthy of a recorded conversation, at the monitor, with the referee. He could have asked the referee if he’d seen it and if he had, why he hadn’t given a penalty. If he then says Foden had got his shot off and, as all the refs have agreed, that will not be a penalty this season, whilst we might not like it, at least we’d know and wouldn’t have to worry about the same decision being given had it been Salah. Unfortunately, we all know the outcome in that scenario and it’s somewhat different to yesterday.
Looking forward to Owen telling Webb it was wrong and everyone agrees it was wrong!
 
danielwood5 said:
I think the lines a bit further forward than it should be and it's also the wrong frame used.
It's really hard to tell though as I think these diagrams are meant to be used just as visualisation tools and not as an exact simulation, it certainly looks like the simulation image is based on the moment after the ball had been played which is why Dias is shown midair.
Unfortunately, all this stuff is just smoke and mirrors where we have to accept the decision we're given as nobody outside of PGMOL has any idea or insight into how these decisions are made or calculated.
If that was given in real time I wouldn't care as it's such a close decision that the player wasn't getting any kind of advantage. Unfortunately, we've now brought in technology which has destroyed so many of the key elements of what made football great as it was decided that it was better to be accurate and correct than it was to be free-flowing and exciting yet somehow ended up with the worst of all possible worlds with dull games full of cheating, diving, timewasting, thuggery and playacting who's results are being decided not by the players on the pitch or the managers tactics but by weak, inconsistent, cowardly, incorrect refereeing decisions and non-decisions. The Premier League is now like watching European football where the team that cheats the most and gets away with it invariably wins the game.
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Yes I agree with your sentiment there and said the same earlier in the thread. It’s that close that personally, I’d rather not have VAR involved at all. We are where we are though.
 
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