The Labour Government

[maxwellblue]

And if you're in a non-revenue generating service industry, which many lower paid workers are?

That's not a business

 

[TinFoilHat]

 

[WRicko]

Oh right I get you. I wasn’t intending to suggest lower prices reduces use, I was trying to say that less use means lowers prices (in a pure supply and demand context).

My rejection of green policies is this narrative that we can carry on as usual and someone else (say the business traveller) will pay for it and everything will be fine. Do you recall when we all stayed home and couldn’t fly / drive etc during COVID? Do you know how much difference that made? Practically zero. Extrapolating that out everyone on the planet can all drive EVs and never fly and we would not see any meaningful change to CO2 levels. I do believe carbon capture (coupled with reduced CO2 output) could offer solutions but doing it at scale is challenging to say the least.

I don’t think the green movement is actually about other people paying for it. It’s about us all doing something co2 reduction and carbon capture.

 

[WRicko]

Am I or you responsible for choosing routes and deciding who enters the country? No
Are the politicians? Yes

Governments following the nations wishes is certainly a new slant.

I'm in the unusual position where I dont believe in adding to the population of the world or our country so in effect it puts me in a strange position. But lets put aside my population matters viewpoint and if i'm security at the welcome to the UK gate and could decide who comes in after one goes out then the polish sparky doesn't get in, the Russian businessman doesnt get in, the German banker doesn't get in, the 25 yr bloke on a dinghy doesn't get in, the child from Sudan does.

The only caveat i would make is you have a responsibility to keep people safe so it complicates things with religion and high crime countries. Be that criminals from eastern Europe or religious fanatics from anywhere.

Unfortunately that doesnt fit with the mass migration numpties view though.

My apologies BTW I just presumed you were the poster who I was originally applying with that was my mistake.

People moving doesn’t change global population it just moves the population. In fact given that richer countries tend to have lower birth rates. Perhaps the poor should move here not that I think the world is over populated if you look at trends going forward. I also don’t think the country is over populated.

I am curious you insist it’s not about race or religion yet you seem to think bad people come from certain countries and religions

 

[WRicko]

Interesting.
So, I think your question can be changed to
"If the Ukrainians were black African/Asian Muslims would we have welcomed them into the country in such numbers"?
The answer is almost certainly "No".

We could also change the question to
"If the Ukrainians were black Christians would we have welcomed them into the country in such numbers"?
Again, probably "No"

Or "If the Ukrainians were white Muslims would we have welcomed them into the country in such numbers"?
Again, probably "No".

So the only way that the Ukrainians get into this country in such numbers is if they are seen to be exactly the same as us! Predominately white Christian in looks, attitudes, morals and culture. I do not think that is racism, it just seems to be human nature, people tend to form groups with like minded people. That seems to be exactly the same whether you are white, black, brown, Christian, Muslim, Jew.

So it’s not racist or Islamophobic to discriminate based on race or religion (Islam) that’s the very definition of it

 

[west didsblue]

While everyone within a business should have a positive function. The most important people are the ones that generate revenue.

You’re demonstrating your cluelessness about how businesses are run. The ones whose hours aren’t charged to contracts are those that provide all the functions that a business needs to enable its revenue earners to operate. Without them, customers don’t get invoiced, wages don’t get paid, overheads aren’t looked after and the business falls apart. A good successful business values all its employees whether they are revenue earners or not.

 

[hampshireblue]

That's not a business

Well if you want to play around with semantics. The conversation was about how, apparently some roles in an organisation are not worthy of the minimum wage. You say the most important roles are the revenue generators. But without the support staff those people can't carry out their role.

There are many service organisations, that don't generate revenues per se but are crucual to revenue generation by the end user.

 

[WRicko]

171 arrests and 60 deportations last month due to a crack down on illegal work in the gig economy

 

[BlueHammer85]

171 arrests and 60 deportations last month due to a crack down on illegal work in the gig economy

Farage brigade will be bitter about this as it's Labour who are the ones cracking down on illegals.

 

[Gray]

No problem with the removal of the two child limit. As long as the benefit is paid in vouchers. I'm sick to death of seeing parents with tattoos and Mick Jagger lips then crying poverty.

Yes and when the poverty is caused by the bearer of the children not being able to afford them in the first place. It then perpetuates as those children become adults.

 

[metalblue]

I don’t think the green movement is actually about other people paying for it. It’s about us all doing something co2 reduction and carbon capture.

You’ve clearly never read the Greens manifesto then.

 

[We've got Guardiola]

You'd have said somebody was mad if they suggested that this would be the polling 2-3 years ago.

The traditional parties are virtually dead.

 

[metalblue]

People moving doesn’t change global population it just moves the population. In fact given that richer countries tend to have lower birth rates. Perhaps the poor should move here not that I think the world is over populated if you look at trends going forward. I also don’t think the country is over populated.

I am curious you insist it’s not about race or religion yet you seem to think bad people come from certain countries and religions

The country is overpopulated for the size of the state. So either you reduce the amount of net migration or you grow the state to facilitate.

You seem oblivious to this and want to make it all about race.

Let’s play a game. You don’t have an issue with our government paying part of our leccy bills, this keeps energy costs high for the whole world. Poor nations can’t afford to subsidise their populations energy consumption- therefore you think socialism stops at our borders - or perhaps you don’t like foreigners, especially poor ones from Africa. See how easy it is to turn a view to be something about race?

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

You'd have said somebody was mad if they suggested that this would be the polling 2-3 years ago.

The traditional parties are virtually dead.

It's really interesting to see these sorts of numbers (albeit methodology is important in polling(. I suspect they will revert more to a norm the nearer an election comes, but it shows a clear appetite for change.

The 2 party system has been propped up by traditional media and now people are getting their news and information from elsewhere I think we are seeing parties like the Greens starting to cut through.

Trust in politicians is also very low. YouGov polling suggests that only 4% of us think that politicians act in the best interests of the country, and about 20% think politicians do what is best for their party above all else. This isn't good.

Whatever happens come the next GE I hope we see electoral reform and a move away from FPTP as a prominent theme.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

It's really interesting to see these sorts of numbers (albeit methodology is important in polling(. I suspect they will revert more to a norm the nearer an election comes, but it shows a clear appetite for change.

The 2 party system has been propped up by traditional media and now people are getting their news and information from elsewhere I think we are seeing parties like the Greens starting to cut through.

Trust in politicians is also very low. YouGov polling suggests that only 4% of us think that politicians act in the best interests of the country, and about 20% think politicians do what is best for their party above all else. This isn't good.

Whatever happens come the next GE I hope we see electoral reform and a move away from FPTP as a prominent theme.

I think they're feeding themselves at the moment too.
A poll showing Party1 is low and Party2 are good.
The news media report it and question what it means, clips are available on social media.
People here this and think Party1 are worse than thought and turn away from them.
A poll shows Party1 is lower.
The news media report it....

And the media know exactly how it works, and don't question it. Every incident is dissected and they default to the "I'm not saying this, but it's a question that isn't being answered" so loved by political agitators.

 

[Scottyboi]

Err bad people come from everywhere including the UK but if you dont think one should be extra vigilant with certain places knock yourself out. The security check in the film Airplane springs to mind with you:-)

I know people moving doesn’t change the global population thanks for trying to insult my intelligence :-)
The environment is not just about global warming its also about what is around you, you know the environment around you Air quality clean water being stuck in more and more traffic fly tipping further away from green spaces, destruction of the countryside destruction of species less natural resources.

The fact you think the world and country is not overpopulated means we aint ever gonna agree so let's leave it there. Its just too inconvenient for people to accept.

People love using the UK as a whole when going on about us not being over populated, but when you change it to England it paints a very different picture.

England is one of the most densely populated countries in Europe, with a population density significantly higher than the continental average.

With approximately 434 to 443 people per square kilometre, England is far more crowded than the United Kingdom average and ranks as the second most densely populated major nation in Europe, trailing only the Netherlands.

Netherlands	~518 - 528	~19% Denser europa​
England	~443	(Reference)
Belgium	~383 - 384	~14% Less Dense europa​
Germany	~233 - 237	~47% Less Dense worldatlas​
Italy	~195	~56% Less Dense worldatlas​
France	~119 - 125	~72% Less Dense facebook​
Spain	~94 - 96	~78% Less Dense facebook​
European Union (Avg)	~109	~75% Less Dense europa​

 

[Palerider]

So it’s not racist or Islamophobic to discriminate based on race or religion (Islam) that’s the very definition of it

What I am saying is that it seems perfectly natural to discriminate against people who you do not like. Now you can try legislating against that dislike and you can moralise against the dislike but it does not change that dislike. You could also say that disliking anyone is wrong but everyone seems to do it. In politics many, many people are delighted when a political enemy has their life destroyed or what about life ended by assassination? Bottom line surely is that if you know that the mouse, cat and dog hate each other then do not put them in the same room and expect peace, that would be putting ideology ahead of common sense.

Imagine you are going to house share? Would you choose someone you didn't like or a housemate with views you did not like to share your home? Or would you choose someone, you suspected, was a lot like you? What I am saying is that choosing to house share with the most compatible person is completely normal and expanding that into the rest of your life is also completely normal.

 

[WRicko]

You’ve clearly never read the Greens manifesto then.

No I haven’t but who reads any manifesto I mean it will be progressive both socially and on green issue I am sure but are you saying private jets shouldn’t pay more fuel tax ? Or the rich shouldn’t pay there fair share ? However I am talking both the Green Party and the green movement more broadly for example fact that wind turbines etc are not in of themselves progressive / tax the rich or anyone else for that matter ( actually green energy is cheaper for all (look at gas and oil subsidies ). Cutting back doesn’t cost anyone either

 

[WRicko]

What I am saying is that it seems perfectly natural to discriminate against people who you do not like. Now you can try legislating against that dislike and you can moralise against the dislike but it does not change that dislike. You could also say that disliking anyone is wrong but everyone seems to do it. In politics many, many people are delighted when a political enemy has their life destroyed or what about life ended by assassination? Bottom line surely is that if you know that the mouse, cat and dog hate each other then do not put them in the same room and expect peace.

Imagine you are going to house share with someone? Would you choose someone you didn't like or views you did not like to share your home? Or would you choose someone, you suspected, was a lot like you? What I am saying is that choosing to house share with the most compatible person is completely normal and expanding that into the rest of your life is also completely normal.

I dislike people based on actions / words not skin color or religion And I don’t make assumptions about liking or not liking someone for no reason

 

[maxwellblue]

You’re demonstrating your cluelessness about how businesses are run. The ones whose hours aren’t charged to contracts are those that provide all the functions that a business needs to enable its revenue earners to operate. Without them, customers don’t get invoiced, wages don’t get paid, overheads aren’t looked after and the business falls apart. A good successful business values all its employees whether they are revenue earners or not.

I ran my own very, very successful business for 40 years so I'm quite confident that I am clued up enough to comment how businesses work. Have you ever run a business ?

As I said all roles are important to the running of any business but my answer was to which role was the most important.

Remove those that do the invoicing, wages, cleaning etc. Those that produce the product that generates the revenue could still send out the invoices, do the wages, clean the office and workshop. It might make the day longer but it would still get done.

Keep those that do the invoices, do the wages and clean the office and get rid of the revenue producers and those left have nothing to invoice, no wages to pay, apart from their own but there won't be any money to pay them as nothing is being produced and sold.