The 2018 Champions v the 2019 Champions. Tricky call. Best sides ever.
Will we win the league this season?
- Thread starter Worsleyweb
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In the league, yes, but the Centurions lost at Wigan in the FA Cup and didn't win the CL. The 2019 side lost vs Spurs in the CL...
The Treble winners smashed Bayern and Real in the CL and won it without losing a single game, won the FA Cup, won twice against the runners up in the PL... They were the best both in terms of highest level of football and of trophies.
City 23/24 played at a higher level (Real 4:0) and won more.
The Centurions benefited from the league being seriously unprepared for Pep's tactics (due to the perceived failure of Pep's City in 16/17). They wouldn't win 100 pts in this league because Pep changed football in the country (at all levels) and more teams know how to play against possession based teams.
Pretty much the same team apart from Mahrez
Marvin.
Well-Known Member
Villa beat City. City are 2nd in what this season is not a great league. Look at the state of Liverpool, Newcastle, Man Utd and Spurs. Even Chelsea are hot and cold. Arsenal are strong defensively but they are still struggling for a no.9. City, as Pep has said, can get better.
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
2019 for me.
The perception that the league is weak may be caused by the fact that it is strong...
Why? Because in a strong league even the better teams are inconsistent: they find it hard to win many games in a row and sometimes struggle against relegation fodder.
Villa are winning games in which they create fewer chances than the opposition (Arsenal, City...). It's hard to sustain but weird things can happen in football.
Marvin.
Well-Known Member
I think the PL is generally competitive in midtable but some of the traditional top 6 are in some state of weakness. Liverpool, Newcastle, Chelsea, Sours, Man Utd have real weakness. It's not just that the mid-table has got better. City's recovery is helped by a weak top 6.
This is probably something that is arguable and would need more than 2-3 sentences to justify.
The threat posed by Villa is quite interesting. I think they are quite an ordinary side with one match-winner in outstanding form. I'd be surprised if Morgan Rogers can keep this up. Had Leny Yoro done a competent job, Utd would have taken at least a point. But there is always an 'if' around Man Utd, that is why they are 7th.
Incorrect penalty decision away from being perfect on Arsenal, don't expect much from the next 2 now.
15 points for City in this run so far, 10 for Arsenal. So slightly out on results (8/10 right) but we've actually cut the gap more than expected so far.
Interested to hear your thoughts now. City have 15 so far (more than you predicted) and Arsenal can't get the 17 you predicted.
I think you underestimated the position of City and overestimated Arsenal.
Having all of the tough games out of the way isn't really a flex when you didn't win most of them and I think we've seen in recent weeks, Arsenal will struggle in games they shouldn't, again because they're not killing games.
I also think the games Arsenal refer to as 'hard' aren't necessarily hard for City.
- United (A), is usually an easier game for us than it is for you. Only lost 1 in 6, 3 wins in there.
- Everton (A) is tricky but again, historically harder for you guys.
- Spurs (A), better at their ground than ours in the past couple of seasons, won last 2 in the league to nil.
- Liverpool (A), this is the tricky game for us.
- Chelsea (A), tricky but we have a great record:
- Sunderland (A), they've been great but I think Arsenal made a meal of this game, players at AFCON makes it easier.
- Villa (A), Newcastle (A), Arsenal (A), Brighton (A), Palace (A), all ticked off, again like you guys, ticked off isn't great without results but a couple of decent results in there.
From an outside perspective on Arsenal, I would say your inability to kill games off is an issue. I think your defence is more stable, especially your starting defence without injuries but your attack is messy and a bit broken.
For me it's the winning margins that tell more of the story, I think the losses and draws almost cancel each other out, at the top a draw feels like a loss.:
| Arsenal | City | |
| Lost | 2 | 4 |
| Drew | 3 | 1 |
| 1 goal margin win | 6 | 3 |
| 2 goal margin win | 3 | 2 |
| 3 goal+ margin win | 3 | 7 |
As I watch both teams at the moment, it just looks like there is less margin of error for Arsenal. Better defence but all it takes is 1 error, Everton were shit on Saturday but they could and should have had a penalty with 20mins to go to make it 1-1. Wolves were shit and got it level in injury time.
People say we look shaky at the back but we aren't playing as many tight games. People like to throw the Fulham game at us but we were 5-1 up and made some shocking subs at 5-2 when we thought the game was won.
It's going to be tight, I think it'll be won by less than 6 points, I'm not sure how we're still in it, which might raise questions about Arteta if you dont win it but it looks like it's going to be fun.
Attached shows fixtures played home & away. I know it always feels like a benefit playing all of the big teams away from home first, but the reality is it leaves a tricky set of fixtures - home games suddenly become tough (because you’re playing better sides), and in this league every away game is tough.
I would say Chelsea & Liverpool away are nice fixtures to get out the way, but would I swap that for having to go to the Emirates instead of them coming to the Etihad. Probably not. Outside of those 3 fixtures it’s pretty even - not much seperates the sides between Sunderland down to as far as Spurs. All tough games away from home.
I would say Chelsea & Liverpool away are nice fixtures to get out the way, but would I swap that for having to go to the Emirates instead of them coming to the Etihad. Probably not. Outside of those 3 fixtures it’s pretty even - not much seperates the sides between Sunderland down to as far as Spurs. All tough games away from home.
Attachments
Yeah City have come good and look like the horse in the race that is gaining on the leader that was 3 lengths clear and is now half a length clear.
Winning 3-0 at Palace is no mean feat. I thought you'd slip up there.
lee one pen
Well-Known Member
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We will get better. We have players just finding their feet.
I personally think Tiny will be a special player when he settles down.
Khus is another who will make a huge difference.
The future looks bright, don’t be surprised if Pep signs another extension, he knows that the ceiling is very high with this squad.
Cobwebcat
Well-Known Member
Correct 2023…..By a mile and every independent ranking says the same.
I loved the Centurions but tactics have changed a lot since then….we certainly had a lot less low blocks then.
People dont realise how good the treble winners were. Easily the greatest English team of all time and top 4 anywhere. Some rankings have that City side 1st ever anywhere.
Marvin.
Well-Known Member
I reckon that Pep's criticism of City's game could be linked to a Semnyo bid...
Basis: Persuade the player that there is a space for him in City's first team because if he has multiple offers, playing time at City might be a factor.
Basis: Persuade the player that there is a space for him in City's first team because if he has multiple offers, playing time at City might be a factor.
I think there have been structural changes in football related to tactics and physicality that close the gap between top and midtable teams, leaving the impression that the league is a bit poor at the top end. That's largely wrong.
Arsenal and City are amongst the favourites to win the CL, Chelsea and Liverpool can win against any top European team on their day: not much different than 5-7 years ago. Indeed, Chelsea destroyed PSG in the CWC final. I'd say the league now is much stronger than it was between, say, 2010 and 2017, and not really worse than between 20-22.
This City team is doing better than the 20/21 team at the same stage of the season. And the 20/21 team was ultimately 3 wins off the quadruple by the end of that season. So, the perception that the current team is far off the quality of previous City teams might be a bit misleading, especially if Rodri can stay fit.
Cobwebcat
Well-Known Member
Correct again. The PL (at least compared to the rest of Europe) has never been so powerful, ever. So, unless the standard of football across the whole continent has dropped then the PL is very strong AND competitive.
Villa are scoring Worldies week in week out. Rodger’s two goals together had a 1 in 500 change of going in v United. It’s not sustainable but, like Leicester, strange things do happen.
Cobwebcat
Well-Known Member
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gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
It’s in invariably more complex than that, though. It’s perfectly conceivable that if the most advanced part of Bernardo’s body had been a centimetre the other way, we could have won the lot in 2019. The Quadruple.
That was the apotheosis of a Pep team.