United (A) | PL | Post Match Thread

So nearly 24 hours after the debacle and there has been so much written about it. I probably shouldn't add to that but I need to get my head around the team selection as much as anything. It is kind of cathartic so please forgive me labouring a couple of points.

Firstly I will die on the hill that on current form there is no way Phil should start centrally, be the guy tasked with creativity etc ahead of Cherki ever again. Best to start games giving teams more to worry about than allowing them to get up a head of steam.

Hindsight is easy but given the structure of our squad and the injuries we have I think the following was key to our disjointed, lack of energy way of playing.

Bernie ran his blood to water on Tuesday, initiated the press and pushed tirelessly - he was knackered yet 3.5 days later we ask him to do the same again - madness. Nico O'R stood toe to toe with Joelinton and Tonali yet was put on the bench. For me it was simple. Pep should have not played Bernie or Foden in the midfield. Nico should have played alongside Rodri and be tasked with cutting the space that Bruno worked in. Bruno is their talisman and we gave him the freedom to pick his passes and affect the game. He is the sort of player if you get close to him, niggle him he starts to get frustrated and becomes a liability.

Ait-N should have started at left back - Ake being there made the entire defence unstructured because he is so afraid of his lack of pace he is always a yard behind the others and as a result they had several goals chalked off by a small margin - it was always Ake who nearly played them on! Plus his passing is terrible - for a left footer every time he received the ball he looked to pass back inside into trouble or worse still let in run out for easy possession to them. His regression is plain to see. To blame Max for what Ake did and make him the scapegoat was very odd from Pep.

On the other flank we had Rico who couldn't even take a throw in to a blue shirt - this always frustrates me - a few times he was slow to take it and then threw it straight to them - it's easy really. Plus when in possession out wide he lost it and tried to grab shirts and foul as he is so weak, it was like a grown man against a child - he is and never will be a top wing back/full back so we need to stop with the experiment - every time he plays in that position we struggle. I have no idea who could have filled that position as we have such a lack of options at the moment.

The margins at the very top are small and given we now have a real lack of leaders - which is why signing Guehi makes sense - so someone, somewhere needs to fill that void.

Apologies for repeating stuff but on a Sunday morning I needed to vent before the obvious "how fantastic it was to have Utd back" reports surface. I love blue moon being a platform for that, it's like therapy for a broken (temporarily) blue today!
 
There's also a good few other Managers out there that could come in, shake things up a bit and most likely win the league with our team with some fresh ideas, it's whether the succession planning for Pep has Us having another 10 Year Manager or changing every few seasons that I think is hard to know, I do think for what it's worth that Pep will leave at the end of this season if it doesn't go well, too risky going into next season with contract ending and too risky to potentially have 3 seasons on the bounce of us not performing, tough choices at the top!

Pep's more likely to sign a new contract than leave. The players absolutely adore him and continue to run through brick walls for him. It's the day the players stop running that he'll leave. Also, he's just been bought a new team that he wants to reach its potential. You have to understand the mentality of the guy. He would never leave simply because the team wasn't doing well, on the contrary he'd be the first guy to want to fix it.

On your first point about there being manager out there who could shake things up and win the league, I'm sure there's one or two who could do what Slot did last season. But then, look at Liverpool now. Also, I'd bet on Pep winning the league with this squad next season more than anyone else. The idea of change for the the sake of it, when the direction of travel isn't a problem seems counterintuitive to me.
 
Also, I don’t buy the ‘Haaland looks knackered’ thing. He hardly sprints around for 90mins. I have friends who run Ultra Marathons for a laugh most weekends while holding down a 9-5 job. These problem is the he doesn’t create his own chances and the service lately has been lacking. However, when the ball did fall to him he has been well of target and his shots to goal ratio has been poor. Not sure what’s going on but it isn’t tiredness.
 
Think yesterday was almost entirely caused by our back four tbh (Khusanov aside). There was a moment early on when Alleyne passed it out wide to Ake on the left, but the pass was about an inch behind Ake's run which meant he had to try controlling it while adjusting and it went out of play. That set the template for the whole game.

Our two most consistent players this season have been Nunes and O'Reilly - that's because they win their duels, they know the passing patterns, they know how to progress the ball up the pitch, and they support the attack and provide width. Lewis and Ake weren't really capable of matching what Nunes and O'Reilly have grown into.

We couldn't progress the ball up the pitch often enough, the passing patterns were all over the place in the middle third, and our attacks were light and narrow because Lewis and Ake weren't comfortable going beyond their wingers into United's defensive areas. Throw in a slightly nervy Alleyne and you can see why it happened.

This also contributed to both Rodri and Bernardo having to drop 20-30 yards just to collect the ball next to the CBs and try to get moves going. That created a massive, massive disconnect between our middle players (Rodri, Foden, Bernardo) and our attacking players (Doku, Semenyo, Haaland) which meant we never got the ball moving.

It also meant that Fernandes got free reign of Old Trafford while Mbeumo, Amad, and Dorgu were able to run into big empty spaces and put pressure on an already nervous Lewis and Ake. They were always going to be beaten physically by United's wingers - I think Pep was hoping we could negate that with technical stuff. Sadly that didn't happen.

We absolutely would not have been battered by United like we were if Dias and Gvardiol were fit. Khusanov looks like the simplest solution because he's fast, aggressive, and comfortable enough moving the ball into midfield. Alleyne is really getting there but clearly needs more time. Neither of them are Dias and Gvardiol - yet.

Hopefully with Ait-Nouri back from Afcon that at least ends the "Ake at LB" experiment, which means we've got Khusanov, Alleyne, Guehi, and Ake as CB options for the next month. It's a wave we can ride out, I'm sure, given that we have slightly kinder fixtures for a wee bit. Hopefully Dias will be back in training by the Spurs/Liverpool games.
 
Pep's more likely to sign a new contract than leave. The players absolutely adore him and continue to run through brick walls for him. It's the day the players stop running that he'll leave. Also, he's just been bought a new team that he wants to reach its potential. You have to understand the mentality of the guy. He would never leave simply because the team wasn't doing well, on the contrary he'd be the first guy to want to fix it.

On your first point about there being manager out there who could shake things up and win the league, I'm sure there's one or two who could do what Slot did last season. But then, look at Liverpool now. Also, I'd bet on Pep winning the league with this squad next season more than anyone else. The idea of change for the the sake of it, when the direction of travel isn't a problem seems counterintuitive to me.
I'm not saying you are wrong, but was yesterday not that day? The players wouldn't run through a paper bag yesterday and looked like they didn't give a bollocks.

Too many occasions over the last 18 months alot of the same players just aren't putting the effort in and the same players aren't putting it in for the manager.
 
In one way it’s interesting to see the shoe on the other foot as United treat this as their cup final and we see it as just a defeat.Passionate fans will wish we hurt more which is only fair, but we can move on and bed Semenyo and Ghuery in for later in season, hopefully getting back more from injury, then target the cups, especially Champs league.That would suit me this season as we are not consistent enough to win league IMO.pity as Arsenal keep dropping points proving we could have romped it really.
We dont stand a chance in the CL - there are far superior teams than us...
Wd dont have serious players at present with the right temprament.....no killers, no winners at all costs - just a bunch of talented entertainers and some prospects.

Int he domestic cups it looks like we could get to the final but it will be against Arsenal probably.....again (like utd yesterday) they will treat it like a cup final (and this time it is) and we will be out fought and out muscled -we are too lightweight both physically and mentally
 
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We keep making the same mistakes each game. Pep really needs to go back to then drawing board and tweak. Looks to me that it’s been going wrong with the squad now for two seasons and he is tired and can’t fix the issues 100 per cent so it’s in this state.

We get run over by every single team yet nothing is done about it. Surly utilising players better is the way out of this mess. Injuries to both cbs didn’t have to happen, khus was available. Haaland can’t score, drop him and revert to false 9.

All we do is the same thing every week. It’s gone stale and people don’t look bothered or you wouldn’t be putting in very little work in games like the rags and many other games this season. All looking around for excuses and we have started that…will do better next game bollox. Bad sign if that’s constantly needing to be said.

That hammering which it was apart from goals scored has been coming.

Aparty and drive is not what it once was. We as a club need to figure this next stage out after winning so much and not just bury our collective heads and say it’s all down to pep.

The team won’t be fixed for maybe another 1/2 seasons.

I think we might also be entering a period where some of the new players can’t handle the pressure of playing for City. The shirt is too heavy due to our past success. We are seen as one of the best clubs in the world. Some players won’t be able to handle the expectations. This is new to us.
 
as completely shite as we were yesterday, i am now calm about the situation, the perfect storm with our makeshift defence gave us absolutey no platform in the game whatsoever, that defence will hopefully never be used again, we couldn't even play the ball out of the back with any cohesion or accuracy, we were beaten before we started. We need to draw a line under yesterday, it's not the norm, we will recover and Utd have their day in the sun, but they won't ber winning anything this year, or for the foorseeable future, while we we continue to compete
 
Pep has lost the derby on numerous occasions and it hasn’t been the defining point of our season. We are still fighting on four fronts with only Arsenal that can say that, still plenty to play for.

There’s going to be many more bumpy days during this rebuild and we can see improvements and a new emerging younger side. Hypothetically if Pep left who else could realistically do the job? Look at the emperors new clothes Xavi Alonso falling on his sword at Madrid.

Losing one, or even both derby matches has never really affected much, other than local pride ..... I remember City winning both derbies on eseason, but United still winning the title ..... the remaining league games are the ones that define your season, and how many of them you actually WIN !

Plus any cup triumphs of course!
 
I'm not saying you are wrong, but was yesterday not that day? The players wouldn't run through a paper bag yesterday and looked like they didn't give a bollocks.

Too many occasions over the last 18 months alot of the same players just aren't putting the effort in and the same players aren't putting it in for the manager.

So you’re not going to give pep at least what’s left of his contract with the new players and more coming in summer? After all he has done won for our club?

Just can’t get my head around anyone who’s a Man City supporter ever wanting pep out or moved on!
 
Think yesterday was almost entirely caused by our back four tbh (Khusanov aside). There was a moment early on when Alleyne passed it out wide to Ake on the left, but the pass was about an inch behind Ake's run which meant he had to try controlling it while adjusting and it went out of play. That set the template for the whole game.

Our two most consistent players this season have been Nunes and O'Reilly - that's because they win their duels, they know the passing patterns, they know how to progress the ball up the pitch, and they support the attack and provide width. Lewis and Ake weren't really capable of matching what Nunes and O'Reilly have grown into.

We couldn't progress the ball up the pitch often enough, the passing patterns were all over the place in the middle third, and our attacks were light and narrow because Lewis and Ake weren't comfortable going beyond their wingers into United's defensive areas. Throw in a slightly nervy Alleyne and you can see why it happened.

This also contributed to both Rodri and Bernardo having to drop 20-30 yards just to collect the ball next to the CBs and try to get moves going. That created a massive, massive disconnect between our middle players (Rodri, Foden, Bernardo) and our attacking players (Doku, Semenyo, Haaland) which meant we never got the ball moving.

It also meant that Fernandes got free reign of Old Trafford while Mbeumo, Amad, and Dorgu were able to run into big empty spaces and put pressure on an already nervous Lewis and Ake. They were always going to be beaten physically by United's wingers - I think Pep was hoping we could negate that with technical stuff. Sadly hat didn't happen.

We absolutely would not have been battered by United like we were if Dias and Gvardiol were fit. Khusanov looks like the simplest solution because he's fast, aggressive, and comfortable enough moving the ball into midfield. Alleyne is really getting there but clearly needs more time. Neither of them are Dias and Gvardiol - yet.

Hopefully with Ait-Nouri back from Afcon that at least ends the "Ake at LB" experiment, which means we've got Khusanov, Alleyne, Guehi, and Ake as CB options for the next month. It's a wave we can ride out, I'm sure, given that we have slightly kinder fixtures for a wee bit. Hopefully Dias will be back in training by the Spurs/Liverpool games.
Agree on all of that - except the differenec Dias makes....he would Have also struggled yesterday - Gvardiol would have certainly made a positive difference

Alt Nouri is one to watch for me - I have not liked what I have seen of him so far....infact id go as far to say that a large portion of the time he has spent on the pitch he has looked like he doesnt give a fuck at all...he is no appearing as someone you would want to be in the trenches with put it that way.

Guehi hopefully makes a big impact

The front players (besides Doku) need to work a lot harder....I know its not Haalands game so he has a little latitude on this - he isnt built for pressing that is for certain....BUT he should be bullying people on and off the ball.
Semenyo lack of work rate surprised me - he was exceptionally poor yesterday....his work on the ball was also shit but he needs time to bed in BUT he knows what the prem requires and he didnt deilver yesterday in any aspect of the game....there is no excuse for poor work rate.....Look at Doku - he had a poor game BUT he never ever stops trying.

What concerns me is the lack of fight in this team -the lack of born leaders, winners and a win at all costs attitude - think David Silva - Kompany, KDB - even at young ages these were serious and motivated players.....some of ours look like they should be playing exhibition matches with the way they play
 
as completely shite as we were yesterday, i am now calm about the situation, the perfect storm with our makeshift defence gave us absolutey no platform in the game whatsoever, that defence will hopefully never be used again, we couldn't even play the ball out of the back with any cohesion or accuracy, we were beaten before we started. We need to draw a line under yesterday, it's not the norm, we will recover and Utd have their day in the sun, but they won't ber winning anything this year, or for the foorseeable future, while we we continue to compete
Yep. Think this is it in a nutshell.
 
So you’re not going to give pep at least what’s left of his contract with the new players and more coming in summer? After all he has done won for our club?

Just can’t get my head around anyone who’s a Man City supporter ever wanting pep out or moved on!
I've never mentioned Pep out in that post above.

All I was asking the poster is if yesterday was that day? He mentioned players running through a brick wall and the day they stopped running for Pep...Both of which the players stopped doing yesterday so I think I'm well entitled to ask.the question if he felt if yesterday was "that day".
 
I've never mentioned Pep out in that post above.

All I was asking the poster is if yesterday was that day? He mentioned players running through a brick wall and the day they stopped running for Pep...Both of which the players stopped doing yesterday so I think I'm well entitled to ask.the question if he felt if yesterday was "that day".

You look at our team before the game for me you see the problem! I forgot about that game minute it ended! I’ll be seeing watching this team rest of season to see where we are!
 
I'm not saying you are wrong, but was yesterday not that day? The players wouldn't run through a paper bag yesterday and looked like they didn't give a bollocks.

Too many occasions over the last 18 months alot of the same players just aren't putting the effort in and the same players aren't putting it in for the manager.
i agree wiht you on the attitude of some players over the last 18 months...

I dont agree that we move on the best manager in the world because of it.....

What we need to look at is recruitment of players.....and in particular do they have a winning mentality.....as you say too many of this present squad are either not born winners, too inexperienced (NOR, Khusonov) or not serious players .....coupled with some players who aint good enough (Rico Lewis, Sav, Oscar Bobb). There are also some who we just dont know about yet....(RAN for instance along with Reis, Semenyo).
we also have players who have taken squad place for far too long without being able to play (Stones and Ake - both great servants but should have been encouraged out the door in the summer)
 
Lewis and Ake at full backs seemed to be Pep saying I’m going to touch that hot stove one more time and see if it burns. It made no fucking sense, playing Foden based on what he does in flashes and used to do makes no sense, Silva puts the effort in but is largely peripheral.
I mean Pep is widely accepted as one of the greatest managers of all time, but wtf was he playing at yesterday. Yes I know that dirty **** should have been sent off, but that aside we could have been battered 6-0 if not for Donna playing a blinder. Pep is bringing four dimensional chess tactics to a game of dominoes. Fucking baffling.
 
You look at our team before the game for me you see the problem! I forgot about that game minute it ended! I’ll be seeing watching this team rest of season to see where we are!
Everyone knows we have defensive injuries and we had a make shift back four.

That doesn't take away the fact that alot of players yesterday couldn't be arsed, Numerous players walking and pulling out of challenges isn't down to "defensive injuries", let's call a spade a spade, they weren't prepared work and match the Rags commitment.

For what it's worth, as soon as the whistle went yesterday too it's forgotten about and we move onto the next one, we got beaten and we'll take it on the chin.

It's still OK to talk about the game and to say yesterday certain players were disgraceful on that pitch.
 

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