US & Israel attack Iran

Looks like they are going all in for a ground offensive, 12 A-10s have arrived at RAF Lakenheath. Not the type of plane you use for high level bombing, more for close air support for ground forces.

Someone in the states has to put a veto on this, if it’s going to escalate into a full scale war either boots on the ground shouldnt Congress be putting a vote on it?
 
feedmpenzaandhewillscore said:
Looks like they are going all in for a ground offensive, 12 A-10s have arrived at RAF Lakenheath. Not the type of plane you use for high level bombing, more for close air support for ground forces.

Someone in the states has to put a veto on this, if it’s going to escalate into a full scale war either boots on the ground shouldnt Congress be putting a vote on it?
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They’ll do as they’re told because it’s not a war it’s a special military operation just like Ukraine.
 
Israeli people and their leaders are disgusting. If any country needs invading and cleansed of its WMD and crimes against humanity it is Israel and its people. Really sickening. I checked out that member of the Knesset and her disgusting making fun of death and genocide, I cant believe the people of Israel support that.

And to think the worlds trade and resources have been held up because Israel wants what they want. Fuckers. Boycotting isnt enough
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
Israeli people and their leaders are disgusting. If any country needs invading and cleansed of its WMD and crimes against humanity it is Israel and its people. Really sickening. I checked out that member of the Knesset and her disgusting making fun of death and genocide, I cant believe the people of Israel support that.

And to think the worlds trade and resources have been held up because Israel wants what they want. Fuckers. Boycotting isnt enough
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Only Israeli people who support the Goverment are disgusting.
 
Dazzle84 said:
That makes sense - thank you for pointing that out.

I do still understand the govt having concerns about implementing a relief, they will face an inevitable backlash once that relief is rescinded
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That's the problem - no credit when it is going up (as a subsidy would still be a percentage of an overall rise) and then slated off when it goes down - as it's removal would probably cause a highly visible price spike in its own right - guess it depends how bad it gets and how much pressure other parties put on them to do it ... which will increase with time
 
The blue phantom said:
Only Israeli people who support the Goverment are disgusting.
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Yup there are some that would never condone what their govn are doing. And I can understand how the govn apparatus have brainwashed its people into thinking this is the right thing to do.

But there really should come a time when they can see how shameful they are behaving.

...Well, maybe Israel being excluded from international relationships, trade, kicked out of European competitions, boycotted etc, maybe that would wake them up. The rest of the world needs to be as strong as they are with Iran or Russia or any country that goes rogue.

Do nothing and antisemitism will rise amongst people of the world instead, imo.
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
After learning about the Holocaust at school and subsequently reading up on the subject, never in my lifetime did I expect to hear citizens of Israel openly calling for the extermination of another group of people ...

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Though we intuitively hope or imagine it, there's nothing in history or psychology to suggest that experiencing collective trauma in itself produces greater subsequent moral restraint or behaviour from those peoples. At one level it's a bit depressing because if the most sinned against can ignore what happened to them and repeat those sins what hope is there for us all? But the reality is nothing is set in either direction, it can go either way based on the events, type of leadership and interventions that take place. Israel owes nothing to the world in terms of a higher standard of behaviour because of the historical trauma of the Jewish people, but equally it should not receive any free passes either and should rightly be condemned for it's appalling leadership and behaviour over a significant period of time now.

The region is blighted with regimes that seek to dehumanise other populations. It's one thing to call elements of a population murderous fanatics, or even to claim a majority of a people are belligerent towards you. It's an entirely different matter to refer to an entire population as 'vermin' or 'wild animals' because that sets a context that it's ok to exterminate or cull them. This dehumanisation as we know from history lays the foundation for atrocities to be committed and for the wider population to either shrug, turn a blind eye or actively applaud. It seems a small thing but language plays a significant part in the journey to deciding it's ok to 'carpet bomb' a population out of existence.

Worryingly this and similar kinds of speech is becoming more prevalent in our own society and certainly the current US administration are proving to be very adept at dehumanising people. Irrespective of whatever wider action we can or can't take, we can all push back against this trend in our own lives.
 
The blue phantom said:
Oh it's a huge amount I know. I'm trying to give the 10 - 20% some credit. The others are beyond help and are as evil as the Goverment are.
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There's British citizens who flew home to participate in the genocide walking amongst us completely unmolested. They should be treated as if they were Jihadi John and Shamima Begum. No difference.
 
feedmpenzaandhewillscore said:
Looks like they are going all in for a ground offensive, 12 A-10s have arrived at RAF Lakenheath. Not the type of plane you use for high level bombing, more for close air support for ground forces.

Someone in the states has to put a veto on this, if it’s going to escalate into a full scale war either boots on the ground shouldnt Congress be putting a vote on it?
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Trump is running out of options. And the ones he does have left range from bad to worse.

If he walks away now, it's utter humiliation. He's wasted God knows how many billions, lost 13 KIA and hundreds wounded, and achieved nothing of value. Iran still has a stranglehold on the Straits, Israel, KSA etc have taken hits and Trump has not only burned his bridges with European allies but urinated on the ashes. Iran will be able to claim, truthfully, that they defeated the Great Satan. Other terrorist groups will rush to align themselves with the IRGC. It will be the greatest victory for Islamic terrorism since 9/11 itself.

If he invades Kharg Island, the number of Americans killed and wounded so far in this conflict increases exponentially. Depending on how long they stay there, casualties could well outstrip Afghanistan. And even if they take and hold the island, that still doesn't mean they'll be able to keep the Straits open for business. The kind of loss of blood and treasure is a non-survivable wound politically speaking. Trump would be lucky if he made it to the Mid-Terms without the 25th Amendment being invoked. Given what an utter cluster fornication he's made of this, it would be difficult for even the GOP to argue he wasn't unfit for office.

Trump ups the ante and destroys Iran's critical infrastructure such as desalinization plants etc? Not only is that a war crime - and yes, I know Trump doesn't care about that - but Iran will almost certainly retaliate by hitting similar targets across the Middle East. And the USA will have lost whatever tiny sliver of moral authority it has left. Oh, and we would certainly see another uptick in terror attacks across America and Europe. As well as sabotage against CNI carried out by organised crime proxies paid by Iran.

I was going to rule out insane decisions like a full-scale invasion of Iran, or even the limited use of nuclear weapons...but at this point Trump's so far off the reservation I'm not sure even he can guess his own next move.

In short, this won't end well.
 
feedmpenzaandhewillscore said:
Looks like they are going all in for a ground offensive, 12 A-10s have arrived at RAF Lakenheath. Not the type of plane you use for high level bombing, more for close air support for ground forces.

Someone in the states has to put a veto on this, if it’s going to escalate into a full scale war either boots on the ground shouldnt Congress be putting a vote on it?
Click to expand...
Ground offensive with less than 10k ground-fighting capable soldiers and no operational depth. Hmmm.....
 
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