The Labour Government

argyle said:
If your concern was because of the story today by the former NATO chief, he's a paid for lobbyist for American defence contractors.

He wants Britain to buy more American military hardware.

He and American defence companies still want countries to buy hardware built for warfare from another era. As has been shown in Ukraine, drones and lots of them do far more damage than personnel, tanks, planes and missiles and they're a fraction of the cost.

In any case Labour have been in power for less than 2 years and the decrease in our military has been over decades.

Labour have made many mistakes but this can't be laid at the current lots door.
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Nicely said. People are being gaslighted, trying to force the government to spend huge sums on American Defence, in the understanding that they have to do this as we are looking to fund our own infrastructure to produce our own.

The worst part for me in this is that that **** is trying to take money from other areas, such as the NHS, with no thoughts for the peoples of the UK.

Tonight’s statement was political, straight out of the current US playbook.

Might as well have been Trump.
 
SMB75 said:
330 billion forecast this year for welfare alone and yes I know it includes pensions
But this is eye watering.
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But where do you cut it? Sack pensions off, cut disability benefits, get rid of the plans to recover mental health services, starve the children, where do we cut it?

I have my thoughts but none of the parties have come up with an adequate solution to tackle the problem. Maybe we should stop subsidising big business who refuse to pay a living wage, and get rid of all the NIMBY’s so we can get rid of landlords who are happy to take subsidies from the government for inadequate accommodation.
 
The actual problem is we don't have enough money to pay for everything we need so are continually arguing about which deserving group is more deserving than another.
We also can't get a break with economic crashes, pandemics, wars and shite governments.
Latest on the news is palliative care, does the end of your life being utterly miserable trump defence spending or 5th child johnnys corn flakes.
Answer on a postcard(it may not get delivered)
 
SMB75 said:
Politely disagree. It is a forum after all.
But its too skewed the other way.
The Russia issue recently with the underwater cables highlighted our vulnerability. I think a war with Russia is inevitable im the next few years to be honest and we need to be more prepared.
Starmer and Reeves haven't a clue.
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And who does have a clue in your opinion? Frog face? Badenough? To blame this government for decades of under investment in the armed forces is a bit of a stretch.
 
hilts said:
The actual problem is we don't have enough money to pay for everything we need so are continually arguing about which deserving group is more deserving than another.
We also can't get a break with economic crashes, pandemics, wars and shite governments.
Latest on the news is palliative care, does the end of your life being utterly miserable trump defence spending or 5th child johnnys corn flakes.
Answer on a postcard(it may not get delivered)
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Your first sentence sums it up perfectly.

We certainly have generated sufficient means not to be in this position but previous Governments have played fast and loose with the economy, spending billions on non urgent projects.

I would also add, even if we could magic wand all the necessary military hardware we need, who is going to operate, maintain and support it?
 
Next year is the 20th anniversary of the financial crash,since then we’ve had Covid, the Ukraine war and now this shit show in Iran, the 21st century has been fucking awful. This winter will be brutal, the government can’t subsides everyone again and nor should they, in trying to bolster defence I think drones and AI will be the cheaper future option, we can’t afford and won’t get thousands joining up, we need to look closely at what Ukraine are doing and follow that lead. If it means having an iron dome with missiles and drones as a priority, let others take the strain abroad.
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
Nicely said. People are being gaslighted, trying to force the government to spend huge sums on American Defence, in the understanding that they have to do this as we are looking to fund our own infrastructure to produce our own.

The worst part for me in this is that that **** is trying to take money from other areas, such as the NHS, with no thoughts for the peoples of the UK.

Tonight’s statement was political, straight out of the current US playbook.

Might as well have been Trump.
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Benefits fraud is around £9Bn per year, of which around £3Bn is due to errors, known tax evasion is around £5.5Bn per year and there is a tax gap, "tax that should be received but is disappearing in the economy" of around £46Bn largely due to non compliance of small businesses.

Sort that out and there's plenty of headroom to increase defence spending.
 
SMB75 said:
Politely disagree. It is a forum after all.
But its too skewed the other way.
The Russia issue recently with the underwater cables highlighted our vulnerability. I think a war with Russia is inevitable im the next few years to be honest and we need to be more prepared.
Starmer and Reeves haven't a clue.
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Which bit of the facts about pensions and UC are you disagreeing with? You can have an opinion but disagreeing with facts is just silly. Now, where would you start with cuts and who will you be making worse off?

I do agree it's unsustainable. The first target surely has to be the "rich pensioners"-oh no there was uproar over £200 WFP. Ok,the very poorest-oh no it doesn't generate enough. The average worker-oh no, they're beng taxed to the hilt already and rely on free childcare, breakfast clubs, UC, child benefit. The very rich-oh no they'll bugger off to Dubai...not easy is it?
 
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Blue Maverick said:
Next year is the 20th anniversary of the financial crash,since then we’ve had Covid, the Ukraine war and now this shit show in Iran, the 21st century has been fucking awful. This winter will be brutal, the government can’t subsides everyone again and nor should they, in trying to bolster defence I think drones and AI will be the cheaper future option, we can’t afford and won’t get thousands joining up, we need to look closely at what Ukraine are doing and follow that lead. If it means having an iron dome with missiles and drones as a priority, let others take the strain abroad.
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Just to reassure you, that is exactly what we are doing. Not many people have actually looked for the detail, just rely on the good old British media to shape the narrative.

Why do you think the government are being attacked by American Defence lobbyists? We have relied on buying their weapons for so long and thought they’d hit the jackpot with Trump forcing the issue of NATO spending. However, the European countries have realised their mistake and have changed tac, now putting money into their own Defence procurements, rather than the US’.
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
Just to reassure you, that is exactly what we are doing. Not many people have actually looked for the detail, just rely on the good old British media to shape the narrative.

Why do you think the government are being attacked by American Defence lobbyists? We have relied on buying their weapons for so long and thought they’d hit the jackpot with Trump forcing the issue of NATO spending. However, the European countries have realised their mistake and have changed tac, now putting money into their own Defence procurements, rather than the US’.
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Oh I know we are mate but something will have to give to afford it all, like I said the last 20 years have been unprecedented in terms of government bailouts, we ain’t as rich as people think.
 


Sky news phone call to President Trump our immigration policy, the Kings visit and many other topics.
The UK is “Insane tragic and sad” the trade agreement could be changed, the UK energy prices are the highest in the world.?
 
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mosssideblue said:
Your first sentence sums it up perfectly.

We certainly have generated sufficient means not to be in this position but previous Governments have played fast and loose with the economy, spending billions on non urgent projects.

I would also add, even if we could magic wand all the necessary military hardware we need, who is going to operate, maintain and support it?
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Exactly, long term decline needs long term plans to recover, long term plans including tough decisions don't win elections. There isnt one answer or one group to attack that will improve it all.

Instead promise the earth, make excuses, line your pockets, get a term or two. Repeat over and over again while the public complain about pretty much the exact same things and blame the exact same demographics.
 
Kompany Car said:
Benefits fraud is around £9Bn per year, of which around £3Bn is due to errors, known tax evasion is around £5.5Bn per year and there is a tax gap, "tax that should be received but is disappearing in the economy" of around £46Bn largely due to non compliance of small businesses.

Sort that out and there's plenty of headroom to increase defence spending.
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The ‘tax gap’ is a staggering amount (£46B) and the way to tackle it is to equip HMRC with the modern tools available and a full workforce. Instead, we cut the workforce, have closed down the unit dedicated to taxing high wealth individuals, and they are likely using Windows 7…
 
hilts said:
Exactly, long term decline needs long term plans to recover, long term plans including tough decisions don't win elections. There isnt one answer or one group to attack that will improve it all.

Instead promise the earth, make excuses, line your pockets, get a term or two. Repeat over and over again while the public complain about pretty much the exact same things and blame the exact same demographics.
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Yep. Then, push all the plans out beyond the date of the next election, and nothing ever gets done.
It’s sad that, in 2025, we can’t just depoliticise a few things, like the NHS, the Police and education. Just get on with sorting peoples health, educating the young and catching the wrong un’s (ideally putting coppers back on the street and stopping a good few people from becoming wrong un’s).
 
Kompany Car said:
Benefits fraud is around £9Bn per year, of which around £3Bn is due to errors, known tax evasion is around £5.5Bn per year and there is a tax gap, "tax that should be received but is disappearing in the economy" of around £46Bn largely due to non compliance of small businesses.

Sort that out and there's plenty of headroom to increase defence spending.
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Far to many milking the system and playing the "mental health" card.
I'll open up I have had my own MH problems which at times has out me on the brink. I do understand the issues, especially with single men.
But I find work helps, being around people. But far too many are not prepared to face the world, adapt and put some effort in and go to work.
They stay at home and claim they are unfit to work. This is one of the fundamental problems that need sorting out. It's far too easy for them to be wrote off and thus become a burden to the tax payer.
And sadly thousands of young adults are signed off this way, many citing the pandemic which ended 5 years ago as messing them up. Where is the resilience? Where is the drive in some of these people?

I'm sorry don't agree.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
The ‘tax gap’ is a staggering amount (£46B) and the way to tackle it is to equip HMRC with the modern tools available and a full workforce. Instead, we cut the workforce, have closed down the unit dedicated to taxing high wealth individuals, and they are likely using Windows 7…
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Yeah and taxing small businesses and sole traders to the hilt.
I can't think of a worse idea to get the economy moving. But Labour always taxes employment, always has.
A party that claims to want job creation and a growing economy ALWAYS does the worse thing it can to prevent small business growth and additional tax revenue from small business growth.
It really is mental when you think about it.
 
BlueAnorak said:
Yeah and taxing small businesses and sole traders to the hilt.
I can't think of a worse idea to get the economy moving. But Labour always taxes employment, always has.
A party that claims to want job creation and a growing economy ALWAYS does the worse thing it can to prevent small business growth and additional tax revenue from small business growth.
It really is mental when you think about it.
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Sadly, they do what governments always do and go after the low hanging fruit. Then they pull it off the tree and squeeze until it’s dry. Meanwhile, the super rich and massive companies, pay the equivalent of FA.
 
It's all in the word defence.

As in defend our country. I cannot recall since WW2 anyone tried to invade us?

Defence isn't fighting in wars the other side to defend US imperialism/Israeli genocide.

Naturally the RW press, some owned by the US media jumps on a statement made by an ex politician who now works for a US weapons firm to attack a party that doesn't suit their needs.

The anti benefits/welfare argument on here could come off Chat GPT sourced from propaganda created by the same media.
 
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