Pensions and Pensioners

The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
Billionaires and fruits of their labour. Fucking hilarious.
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An idea is often far more important than carving a wooden duck and selling it for a fiver!

Does a billionaire become a billionaire because of the fruits of your labors? If so, do you not get paid for that, too?

Which ideas, and which labor, SHOULD be compensated, and how much in your Utopian Society?

If not the market, should it be the State or maybe just you who decides what is worth how much?

You can scoff at the notion of “fruits of labor,” but not all fruit is equal, just like all labor is not equal. So, does one have to sweat for fruit? Can one sit at a desk? How about having a new idea? Is there ANYTHING that one can do to be worth £1M? £10M? £100M? £1B?

Last one…if I have the idea that a certain widget can create X, which the world believes is worth £1M, and the world decides it wants 10 million of them, WHO EXACTLY should get the money that patented idea (IP) generates?
 
Kirkstall Blue said:
I think young people should work and save like their parents and grandparents did, study hard then find a job and start saving, there are opportunities out there.

If you save the government offer schemes where they will give you £1,000 free for every £10,000 you save towards your first house. That’s got to be something worth saving for.
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What’s that then?
The lifetime ISA gives a 25% bonus a year up to a max of £1000 from you putting in £4000.
The help to buy isa, now abolished, was less generous.
 
Blue Maverick said:
I’m a human being who thinks we should look after others, when do you have enough? Oh look Bezos just paid for another $600 million yacht, or he could help fund multiple hospitals and help those less fortunate, he’s more money than he could ever spend so he pisses it away on things like that, fucking joke and that why America is fucked you don’t have to be a communist or socialist to want to help people if you have the means, it’s fucking disgusting.
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It’s his money, his choice, and you can judge him as you see fit.

FWIW, I agree that it is unseemly to see how he chooses to use his money, but it’s his money.

What is the £ threshold for the “man on the street” telling you how to spend your money?

It’s not an emotional exercise, it’s an intellectual one.

Again, I agree that he has more than enough money and COULD do much more with his money. You think he SHOULD. I think that’s his choice and I’ll feel however I choose to feel about what he does.
 
Blue Maverick said:
I’m a human being who thinks we should look after others, when do you have enough? Oh look Bezos just paid for another $600 million yacht, or he could help fund multiple hospitals and help those less fortunate, he’s more money than he could ever spend so he pisses it away on things like that, fucking joke and that why America is fucked you don’t have to be a communist or socialist to want to help people if you have the means, it’s fucking disgusting.
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Give it away

www.bbc.co.uk

Great Lives - Andrew Carnegie - BBC Sounds

Jeff Randall explores the life of the businessman and philanthropist Andrew Carnegie.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
BlueNomad said:
Life is not about need, unless you’re on the absolute last rung of life’s ladder.

Why shouldn’t someone enjoy the fruits of their labour? Because you don’t have it? WHY?

I’d love to hear the reason why one person’s work is not worth what the world is willing to pay for it?

Are you a Communist or just a plain old Socialist looking to live off the fruits of others?
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I posted about this earlier on the Starmer thread. Everyone should absolutely be able to enjoy the fruits of their labour. The problem is how this game has changed for people over time to the point that you still do the labour but you don't get any fruit anymore.

That isn't because they don't work or can't be arsed, it's because the economic situation has been dire for nearly two decades and the game is rigged against them. I quote housing costs all the time but the average house price is nearly 10x salary nowadays whereas in the 1980's it was 2-3x salary. You can't work harder to beat this.

Pensioners nowadays should indeed enjoy their remaining years because they'll be the last ones to do so. There are 30+ year olds who have put away literally nothing for retirement because they have nothing to put away. I know people my age who will rely completely on their inheritance for retirement.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
Some of that money back? If you’d earned £30000 for 40 years from age 25 you’d pay in £56,000. At the current pension, assuming it never rose, you’d take that back every 4 and a half years.
A much better system would be NI of £1 a week and rolling the rest into income tax. That would have the benefit of richer pensioners paying in and no upper limit for the very wealthy. You could move the Income tax threshold in line with the state pension so, if that was all you had to live on, you’d pay no tax.
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That’s not right because one of my pensions that started in 1984 and had a value of 3k when I left the company, it’s now worth 73k.

Comparing contributions with inflationary increases through investments just doesn’t work, a portion of NI contributions should have been invested to protect state pensions but we’ve just pissed that money away.

Have a look at the Norwegian Sovereign fund to see how a responsible Government handles the public finances, it really is chalk and cheese.
 
We've got Guardiola said:
I posted about this earlier on the Starmer thread. Everyone should absolutely be able to enjoy the fruits of their labour. The problem is how this game has changed for people over time to the point that you still do the labour but you don't get any fruit anymore.

That isn't because they don't work or can't be arsed, it's because the economic situation has been dire for nearly two decades and the game is rigged against them. I quote housing costs all the time but the average house price is nearly 10x salary nowadays whereas in the 1980's it was 2-3x salary. You can't work harder to beat this.

Pensioners nowadays should indeed enjoy their remaining years because they'll be the last ones to do so. There are 30+ year olds who have put away literally nothing for retirement because they have nothing to put away. I know people my age who will rely completely on their inheritance for retirement.
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I won’t disagree or dissect any of that, because I agree with much of it. My only issue is that billionaires are not at fault for that, our system is.

Don’t hate the playa, change the game!
 
We've got Guardiola said:
I posted about this earlier on the Starmer thread. Everyone should absolutely be able to enjoy the fruits of their labour. The problem is how this game has changed for people over time to the point that you still do the labour but you don't get any fruit anymore.

That isn't because they don't work or can't be arsed, it's because the economic situation has been dire for nearly two decades and the game is rigged against them. I quote housing costs all the time but the average house price is nearly 10x salary nowadays whereas in the 1980's it was 2-3x salary. You can't work harder to beat this.

Pensioners nowadays should indeed enjoy their remaining years because they'll be the last ones to do so. There are 30+ year olds who have put away literally nothing for retirement because they have nothing to put away. I know people my age who will rely completely on their inheritance for retirement.
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The housing issue is definitely a massive problem.
I work with 18-24 year olds trying to find a job, and that thought often goes through my mind re how the hell will they ever afford their own property?
The point is though that this is not the fault of pensioners; its the world we live in and multu faceted.
 
Ho Chi Man City said:
That’s not right because one of my pensions that started in 1984 and had a value of 3k when I left the company, it’s now worth 73k.

Comparing contributions with inflationary increases through investments just doesn’t work, a portion of NI contributions should have been invested to protect state pensions but we’ve just pissed that money away.

Have a look at the Norwegian Sovereign fund to see how a responsible Government handles the public finances, it really is chalk and cheese.
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Quite agree. Also, look at the Norway sovereign fund and oil. That’d be called communism in Blighty, especially by the billionaire media owners…
 
hilts said:
Did you? Private was it? Do you have the bill for any state education? Coincidence the figure for this and other services for yourself and children was the same exact amount as the tax you paid. Its a pot we all contribute to.
Fukin? Who paid for yours :-)
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To be fair, Uni used to be “free” but now requires payment. Maybe that’s where the disconnect lies?
 
Blue Maverick said:
Well there going to be a lot of wealthy kids in 20-30 years when we all die according to some as we are so rich and leaving it to our kids! They’ve no need for a pension as they are getting millions.
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Good stuff! ;-D

It amazes me how people seem to be able to see the future.

Like everyone else, I have scratched for a living and come out with a few quid. Some have more, others less, but I doubt anyone here is on “easy street” given the B word being thrown around on here!!

‘Im sure there are plenty of people with millions in net worth on here, but to a person they will tell you they don’t feel “rich,” because they’ve spent their whole life trying to amass it and will spend the rest of their lives trying to make sure they don’t run out of it!

Everything is relative…
 
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