Next Labour Leader - Miliband Resigns

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Because I did the hard work qualifying whilst earning minimum wage in a call centre, then worked my arse off, took a chance in a foreign country whilst moving away from all friends and family and I do a job that a very tiny percentage of the population can do, hence it being well rewarded.

Nothing to do with falling over the right or wrong vaginas. I saw a good mate on Facebook the other (who fell out of the right vagina and went to the same school and uni as me) complaining about hating his work as a 'server' at Applebys in the States the other day. After uni he went and worked as a ski instructor for half the year and traveller the other half, he's done that for a decade and now wonders why he can't get a serious job. It's all about choices.

I think there's a middle ground between the two.

To suggest that social upbringing has absolutely no marker on success is pretty dodgy. The Bullingdon lot will generally get further for the same work as a council estate kid with smackhead parents, mainly due to the friends they make and the upbringing they had but also intangible things like having emotionally healthy work environments or the ability to expand horizons through the purchase of literature or holidays. I'm not saying it can't be done for people in poverty but ignoring all factors of the development of a person is looking at it backwards.

In these situations I'm reminded of a thing I keep hearing said on a podcast I listen to;"when you're hungry everything else in life pales in importance" which is certainly true. Let's quantify it a minute and suggest that everybody works for 10 hours a day - if you're a kid with a stable upbringing then you can pretty much structure those 10 hours in a meaningful way. Up at 7, lunch at 12, tea at 5, bed at 10. You know the routine so you know the downtime and you know the bits in which you do whatever else you need to do. Kids who don't grow up with a routine or grow up with parents who say tea is at 5 o'clock but then are so wasted out of their minds that the kid is forced to try to microwave beans on toast at 9 at night to get something to eat, they don't have that same opportunity.

Stability in a kids life is ridiculously important. 99% of the kids in the criminal justice system I've had the chance to talk all report the same factors growing up, and it's one that lacks structure and emotional warmth. These things shape the people like become and the students they become thus the workers they become. It's not an even playing field out there. The problem though is that many privileged people who did have relatively stable lives and/or decent educations feel that they are being blamed because they happened to have parents who worked hard rather than pissed it all up a wall. It's not the smackhead kid's fault their parents were wasters any more than it's the Bullingdon kid's fault that their parents weren't.
 
I think there's a middle ground between the two.

To suggest that social upbringing has absolutely no marker on success is pretty dodgy. The Bullingdon lot will generally get further for the same work as a council estate kid with smackhead parents, mainly due to the friends they make and the upbringing they had but also intangible things like having emotionally healthy work environments or the ability to expand horizons through the purchase of literature or holidays. I'm not saying it can't be done for people in poverty but ignoring all factors of the development of a person is looking at it backwards.

In these situations I'm reminded of a thing I keep hearing said on a podcast I listen to;"when you're hungry everything else in life pales in importance" which is certainly true. Let's quantify it a minute and suggest that everybody works for 10 hours a day - if you're a kid with a stable upbringing then you can pretty much structure those 10 hours in a meaningful way. Up at 7, lunch at 12, tea at 5, bed at 10. You know the routine so you know the downtime and you know the bits in which you do whatever else you need to do. Kids who don't grow up with a routine or grow up with parents who say tea is at 5 o'clock but then are so wasted out of their minds that the kid is forced to try to microwave beans on toast at 9 at night to get something to eat, they don't have that same opportunity.

Stability in a kids life is ridiculously important. 99% of the kids in the criminal justice system I've had the chance to talk all report the same factors growing up, and it's one that lacks structure and emotional warmth. These things shape the people like become and the students they become thus the workers they become. It's not an even playing field out there. The problem though is that many privileged people who did have relatively stable lives and/or decent educations feel that they are being blamed because they happened to have parents who worked hard rather than pissed it all up a wall. It's not the smackhead kid's fault their parents were wasters any more than it's the Bullingdon kid's fault that their parents weren't.
Yeah good shout. Just had to laugh at mate after putting up with years of his après ski pictures and being on white sand beaches drinking whilst I was sat in an office.

Anyway, Corbyn, seems like a genuine guy, I like him.
 
I think there's a middle ground between the two.

To suggest that social upbringing has absolutely no marker on success is pretty dodgy. The Bullingdon lot will generally get further for the same work as a council estate kid with smackhead parents, mainly due to the friends they make and the upbringing they had but also intangible things like having emotionally healthy work environments or the ability to expand horizons through the purchase of literature or holidays. I'm not saying it can't be done for people in poverty but ignoring all factors of the development of a person is looking at it backwards.

In these situations I'm reminded of a thing I keep hearing said on a podcast I listen to;"when you're hungry everything else in life pales in importance" which is certainly true. Let's quantify it a minute and suggest that everybody works for 10 hours a day - if you're a kid with a stable upbringing then you can pretty much structure those 10 hours in a meaningful way. Up at 7, lunch at 12, tea at 5, bed at 10. You know the routine so you know the downtime and you know the bits in which you do whatever else you need to do. Kids who don't grow up with a routine or grow up with parents who say tea is at 5 o'clock but then are so wasted out of their minds that the kid is forced to try to microwave beans on toast at 9 at night to get something to eat, they don't have that same opportunity.

Stability in a kids life is ridiculously important. 99% of the kids in the criminal justice system I've had the chance to talk all report the same factors growing up, and it's one that lacks structure and emotional warmth. These things shape the people like become and the students they become thus the workers they become. It's not an even playing field out there. The problem though is that many privileged people who did have relatively stable lives and/or decent educations feel that they are being blamed because they happened to have parents who worked hard rather than pissed it all up a wall. It's not the smackhead kid's fault their parents were wasters any more than it's the Bullingdon kid's fault that their parents weren't.
Good post, mate.

Life is rarely as simple as some would paint it.
 
Because I did the hard work qualifying whilst earning minimum wage in a call centre, then worked my arse off, took a chance in a foreign country whilst moving away from all friends and family and I do a job that a very tiny percentage of the population can do, hence it being well rewarded.

Nothing to do with falling over the right or wrong vaginas. I saw a good mate on Facebook the other (who fell out of the right vagina and went to the same school and uni as me) complaining about hating his work as a 'server' at Applebys in the States the other day. After uni he went and worked as a ski instructor for half the year and traveller the other half, he's done that for a decade and now wonders why he can't get a serious job. It's all about choices.

You made the right choice and your pal made the wrong one, as you say, choices, even those blessed with life’s advantages, being born in to wealth and privilege can still fuck up, but there is strong evidence that those from wealthy backgrounds, not blessed with any discernable talent, the "Tim, Nice but Dims" are protected by their class, given some well paid sinecure, so they don't suffer the ignominy of falling down the social ladder.....

The triumph of Tim Nice But Dim: Posh but stupid children end up earning more than the poor-but-gifted






      • Children from wealthier families but less academic ability are 35 per cent more likely to become high earners by the age of 42 than poor but gifted




      • Epitomised by the TV character Tim Nice-But-Dim played by Harry Enfield




      • Study looked at lives of 17,000 people born in UK in the same week in 1970




      • Found children from poor families were less able to build on early success

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-stupid-children-end-earning-poor-gifted.html


2AD9FDDA00000578-0-image-m-11_1437902240856.jpg



We need to open up opportunities for all our people, particularly the young, so they can make those life choices and I'm eager to hear how you think that might be achieved.
 
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there is strong evidence that those from wealthy backgrounds, not blessed with any discernable talent, the "Tim, Nice but Dims" are protected by their class, given some well paid sinecure, so they don't suffer the ignominy of falling down the social ladder.....
I met a few of them over the weekend in Anglesea. I find them very hard work.
 
Yes @SWP's back, I also would like to know what you're going to do to help children born in 1970 be more socially mobile.

You really are very silly, it is not possible to state with absolute certainty whether a child born in leafy suburbia to a well healed family this morning, will fare better than one born in less advantageous circumstances two minutes earlier, because they've yet to take their first dump, Only a study of historical data can give any indication as to what might happen to them and we need to contrast and compare what opportunities existed then and now, whether as a society right now, social class is more or less a defining factor in life chances and so on.

If, as SWP states, it's all about choices, that statement is true only if those choices are available to all people to choose, if those choices are not available to all people then the statement is eroneous, because it can't be all about choices if those choices are not there for all people.

You should be batting on my side on this, you're the prove it king.
 
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You really are very silly, it is not possible to state with absolute certainty whether a child born in leafy suburbia to a well healed family this morning, will fare better than one born in less advantageous circumstances two minutes earlier, because they've yet to take their first dump, Only a study of historical data can give any indication as to what might happen to them and we need to contrast and compare what opportunities existed then and now, whether as a society right now, social class is more or less a defining factor in life chances and so on.

If, as SWP states, it's all about choices, that statement is true only if those choices are available to all people to choose, if those choices are not available to all people then the statement is eroneous, because it can't be all about choices if those choices are not there for all people.

You should be batting on my side on this, you're the prove it king.
To be fair, anyone can undertake their CeFA and DipPFS exams like I did. You don't need industry experience or a degree to do so. As I said,I did it whilst selling insurance for AXA/RAC at an inbound call centre on an industrial estate between Lancaster and morecambe and was on less than 12,000 per year. Wasn't a pleasant year by any stretch but who wants a graduate of economics and geography?
 
To be fair, anyone can undertake their CeFA and DipPFS exams like I did. You don't need industry experience or a degree to do so. As I said,I did it whilst selling insurance for AXA/RAC at an inbound call centre on an industrial estate between Lancaster and morecambe and was on less than 12,000 per year. Wasn't a pleasant year by any stretch but who wants a graduate of economics and geography?

Agreed, I was a graduate in psychology, I did my stint cutting carpets, working on the vans, a paint factory, then an opportunity came up and I ended up working in Nigeria for three years and I made a career in exporting. I'm not decrying hard work and perseverance, one of the guys I started out with now drives taxis and hates it, you have to seize your opportunities when they come up, but I want those opportunities to come up for as many people as possible and I want a society that equips kids with the wherewithal to seize them when they do. You don't strike me as an establishment right winger, there is a space where both left and right agree on this.
 
Agreed, I was a graduate in psychology, I did my stint cutting carpets, working on the vans, a paint factory, then an opportunity came up and I ended up working in Nigeria for three years and I made a career in exporting. I'm not decrying hard work and perseverance, one of the guys I started out with now drives taxis and hates it, you have to seize your opportunities when they come up, but I want those opportunities to come up for as many people as possible and I want a society that equips kids with the wherewithal to seize them when they do. You don't strike me as an establishment right winger, there is a space where both left and right agree on this.
I'm only economically right wing, which usually wins the Tories my vote. I'm socially libertarian and as with all things, there is no party that suits my views even remotely.

Back to Corbyn, I have a naive curiosity to see how this pans out. As an expat with no plans on returning in the short term, him getting in won't affect me but what I do worry about is if he scares the electorate and the Tories are returned in 2020 with Labour in tatters, it allows them a free hand to lurch further to the right which is not a good thing.

Many disagree but I think the Lib Adams putting the hand brake on the Tories in 2010 was a good thing. And a similar arrangement would have been better for the UKIP 2015 than the situation there is now.
 
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