Veganism

You know what it boils down to.. You come into the world, grow up, and self aggrandize the fuck out of yourself. The world is ours! Ignore the facts.. No room for improvement, no sacrifices can be made. What a great deal... and you try and rationalize your needless murderous behaviour. Oh but wait.. it's nature don't you know... we can't figure out we should change.
Life is short, even shorter considering how old the Earth is. In 1000 years the dust from your bones will be gone.


And society will still be eating meat. Learn to accept the things you cannot change. Your life will be more peaceful because of it.
 
meanwhile, thousands of animals have just been eaten by other animals. Nature approves of this, and determines this an acceptable way for all creatures to conduct themselves.

Welcome to the ecosystem, welcome to the real world, welcome to life.
Good one! I completely forgot the Food Chain argument. Carry on....
 
meanwhile, thousands of animals have just been eaten by other animals. Nature approves of this, and determines this an acceptable way for all creatures to conduct themselves.

Welcome to the ecosystem, welcome to the real world, welcome to life.

And as I've said.. nature is a dumb brute force. No regard for beauty or feelings. But we have. Can't we do any better? Or will we cull/torture sentient "food" to the end of time?
 
look-vegetarians-my-dinner-is-taking-a-shit-on-yours.jpg
 
And as I've said.. nature is a dumb brute force. No regard for beauty or feelings. But we have. Can't we do any better? Or will we cull/torture sentient "food" to the end of time?

Nature, and everything's existence and creation, is the most complex and intelligent sphere of forces and mechanisms in existence. You're hung up on the existence of pain and suffering, it can be admirable, but you've completely become blinded by it to the point where you can't see the balance in life, throughout an entire ecosystem, of predation and the law of natural selection and self-preservation. Sure, we over-exploit things, and that has been a big problem, but equally no usage at all creates a raft of problems, not just for us, but for everything else that lives alongside us.

You're like UEFA. In elite club terms City are the new kids, the homo sapiens. Along they come, and they need to grow and compete fast, in order to survive. They have a wide range of revenue streams, known in this case as their diet, which they can exploit in order to fuel this growth. They can use owner investment, meat, or other streams such as commercial and matchday revenue, your dairies and veg of this world. Now, to start with, there's a big catch-up needed, so City need more of the owner investment, meat, in order to catch-up, as without brand rep and an established reputation, competition and access to the other resources can become limited. Over time, they use a mix of revenue streams, and an establish a more varied diet, meaning their reliance on owner investment, meat, is much less than before.

Now UEFA come in and want to protect the woolly mammoths and sabre-tooth tiger. Now in the real world nature allows the fight, but in this case it betrays its own rules and intervenes. It bans City from using owner investment, meat, and makes them rely on the other revenue streams, but only a certain amount of them, whilst the other creatures can eat what they like. City could begin to suffer, but fortunately built up enough strength through the value of proper protein from the meat in their earlier diet. City in our case survive, but what UEFA have done is taken away a core element of revenue, or in our case diet, and taken away the element of choice, to intentionally damage the value and credibility of our club, which is what you're doing to other humans.

Humans have developed themselves so far as to be afforded the luxury of choice, and being able to dine on a range of food sources that the world in which we live has deemed appropriate. Denying that choice is like denying City owner investment, there's nothing wrong according to the world with what they're doing, but somebody is interfering in the natural process and deciding to artificially alter it, which makes the whole system corrupted and distorts it, creating bigger problems, which can be seen within football, and throughout nature when you decide to start messing with it. City aren't required to have owner investment to survive anymore, but have the freedom of choice to use it should they so wish, well at least they should do. Same with meat, people have a choice, afforded to them by good practice by humans over 100,000 years. Depriving them of that choice is wrong, and in this case, makes you Michel Platini, and nobody wants to be him, or even French.

You see, if the world had a problem with meat consumption, it would make it inedible, with no nutritional value. It hasn't. If the world didn't require feelings like pain and suffering to ensure creatures value their own existence, and try to live efficiently and fruitfully in order to preserve themselves and their species, then it wouldn't have selected that way of informing creatures in that way. You're trying to be clever by thinking humans can rewrite the entire rule book and everything will be ok, it wasn't for UEFA, and it won't be for us, because we will create chaos, and be detrimental to our own existence. People who ban people from spending their hard earned revenue end up in court, people who don't look when they cross the road get run over, and those who transform humans into plant-only creatures will damage the ecosystem, put humans in a precarious position and starve millions more.
 
We're not far off a full house already...
5436306123_aace8c89c4_o.jpg

What is is that you think this shows?

This lists several perfectly valid, perfectly logical arguments. Just by saying that something is bullshit doesn't actually make it bullshit.
 
I said in the beginning, if you have the facts of existence, and continue eating meat, you are deluded/selfish.. explain my error.

You are ascribing what are strictly human thoughts and feelings onto things that are not human and completely incapable of thinking or feeling in the way you are ascribing to them.
 
You know what it boils down to.. You come into the world, grow up, and self aggrandize the fuck out of yourself. The world is ours! Ignore the facts.. No room for improvement, no sacrifices can be made. What a great deal... and you try and rationalize your needless murderous behaviour. Oh but wait.. it's nature don't you know... we can't figure out we should change.

What part of your argument contained facts?

I'd also like to know if you use bleach or wash yourself and how you can live with being such a murderous genocidal unethical scumbag killing billion of bacteria, some of which would be the only members of their species ever to exist. Or bedbugs, fleas, ticks, cockroaches, flies, etc.

Is it that although you see these as something that is unarguably alive, you don't specifically value their lives in comparison to your own comfort level? That whilst you're not Flea Hitler and won't be hunting down flies in some genocidal revenge plot you see them as very much lesser than you and your existence?

Yeah, that's what we think but about fluffy creatures as well as the less fluffy ones.
 
I said from the beginning... only those that know the facts and carry on eating meat are selfish cunts. The ignorant I can not blame.
You've mentioned "facts" quite regularly through this thread about the supposed shit life farmed animals live before they are slaughtered. From what I can see, you have only stated opinions.

What are these facts you speak of?
 
What part of your argument contained facts?

I'd also like to know if you use bleach or wash yourself and how you can live with being such a murderous genocidal unethical scumbag killing billion of bacteria, some of which would be the only members of their species ever to exist. Or bedbugs, fleas, ticks, cockroaches, flies, etc.

Is it that although you see these as something that is unarguably alive, you don't specifically value their lives in comparison to your own comfort level? That whilst you're not Flea Hitler and won't be hunting down flies in some genocidal revenge plot you see them as very much lesser than you and your existence?

Yeah, that's what we think but about fluffy creatures as well as the less fluffy ones.

Facts like sentient animals feel pain, facts like we don't need meat to survive, that we all came out of the same pool of shit and evolved to eek out existences together. That we are the smartest things we know of and most of us wouldn't stab a chicken if there was a banana to eat instead.

People got annoyed when I called them selfish. People don't like reality. That's not my fault. I am not interested in how fluffy anything is. The only reason why anything truly matters in the universe is because there are conscious feeling beings in it. The fly/yeast argument doesn't make sense, they aren't complex enough. Anyway the whole idea is trying not to cause suffering. Life comes at cost and you can choose to acknowledge it or not. I am a bit surprised actually, I thought you'd be able to the see worth in using your brain and trying not to be an exploiter.
 
People tend to laugh at this, and I don't really see what's funny.

I feel like once you know the facts of your existence, you are logically obligated to not eat meat or dairy/perpetuate suffering you know is happening. In basically the same way you wouldn't yourself want to be farmed, tortured, live a miserable life, and have a miserable death. Vegans cause less harm, that's just how it is.

Life arose in a cesspit billions of years ago and has been evolving ever since with no intelligence or any compassion for sentient life whatsoever. Life is imposed, so you have no choice in playing the game, you just suddenly arrive on planet Earth. We grow up seeing nature at work, and some people think it's beautiful, which is strange because we all know the miseries that happen to sentient creatures every second. Most of which we can nothing about, but the bit we can do something about though (because we're smart) is the harm that we cause.

I am utterly ashamed when I think of all the meat I've eaten and how unquestioning and selfish I was. In what world, when there is plenty of stuff to eat, (and no, I am not having it that a lettuce has the capacity to feel pain like animal does) does it make any sense to exploit others?

Would beings more intelligent than ourselves cause needless suffering? I don't think so.

Can someone rationally justify themselves eating meat? Or are you forced to admit that you are just an ignorant/selfish person?
What an arrogant **** you come across as there.
 
Facts like sentient animals feel pain, facts like we don't need meat to survive, that we all came out of the same pool of shit and evolved to eek out existences together. That we are the smartest things we know of and most of us wouldn't stab a chicken if there was a banana to eat instead.

People got annoyed when I called them selfish. People don't like reality. That's not my fault. I am not interested in how fluffy anything is. The only reason why anything truly matters in the universe is because there are conscious feeling beings in it. The fly/yeast argument doesn't make sense, they aren't complex enough. Anyway the whole idea is trying not to cause suffering. Life comes at cost and you can choose to acknowledge it or not. I am a bit surprised actually, I thought you'd be able to the see worth in using your brain and trying not to be an exploiter.

Ah, ok so let's explore that.

The fly yeast argument doesn't make sense to you even though you admit that they are alive. They don't matter because they aren't complex enough for you to care about.

This is the exact argument that I have. I don't believe a cow is complex enough to care about.

Me and you have the exact same opinion. The difference is that where we draw a completely arbitrary line is in a different place.
 
Facts like sentient animals feel pain, facts like we don't need meat to survive, that we all came out of the same pool of shit and evolved to eek out existences together. That we are the smartest things we know of and most of us wouldn't stab a chicken if there was a banana to eat instead.

People got annoyed when I called them selfish. People don't like reality. That's not my fault. I am not interested in how fluffy anything is. The only reason why anything truly matters in the universe is because there are conscious feeling beings in it. The fly/yeast argument doesn't make sense, they aren't complex enough. Anyway the whole idea is trying not to cause suffering. Life comes at cost and you can choose to acknowledge it or not. I am a bit surprised actually, I thought you'd be able to the see worth in using your brain and trying not to be an exploiter.
You're talking though your arse mate. Fucking bullshit.How the fuck do you know that I won't twat a chicken on the head, light a fire and roast it instead of eating a fucking banana. I like banana, but I also like roast chicken. What's your beef with meat eaters? Have they harmed you somehow?
 
Facts like sentient animals feel pain, facts like we don't need meat to survive, that we all came out of the same pool of shit and evolved to eek out existences together. That we are the smartest things we know of and most of us wouldn't stab a chicken if there was a banana to eat instead.

People got annoyed when I called them selfish. People don't like reality. That's not my fault. I am not interested in how fluffy anything is. The only reason why anything truly matters in the universe is because there are conscious feeling beings in it. The fly/yeast argument doesn't make sense, they aren't complex enough. Anyway the whole idea is trying not to cause suffering. Life comes at cost and you can choose to acknowledge it or not. I am a bit surprised actually, I thought you'd be able to the see worth in using your brain and trying not to be an exploiter.
Quite possibly the only fact with any relevance is that animals feel pain. This is why rules on animal slaughter are very strict to minimise animal suffering. The rest of your "facts" are irrelevant.
 
ok well I attempt to be vegan, certainly am at home, sometimes I eat veggie when out and very occasionally I go oh fuck it and have a bacon butty. I don't think I am any better or any worse than anyone else. I chose to try and go vegan for lots of reasons, ethical, medical and personal. Not arsed if other people do their thing which is different to mine.
 
@BlueTangerine

You still didn't answer why the fuck you think your kids will ever Thank you for depriving them of meat, of fish, if your that strict on it I assume milk, eggs and cheese. No cod in butter sauce and mash potatoes. No omelette with bacon in, no cheese and ham toasties. No fucking pepperoni pizza! No spag bol. No mac and cheese. No pork chops. No steak. No fish from the chippy. No milkshakes! You're being fucking cruel.
 
If Blue Tangerine wants to go through life thinking he has the morale high ground on the worlds meat eaters then let him crack on.
From reading his posts over the last couple of years it doesn't surprise me one bit that he's taken this stance. I won't be losing any sleep because he thinks I'm a **** for eating and enjoying pigs, cows, sheep, chicken, fish and many other of the worlds creatures.
They shouldn't taste so good...
 
Ah, ok so let's explore that.

The fly yeast argument doesn't make sense to you even though you admit that they are alive. They don't matter because they aren't complex enough for you to care about.

This is the exact argument that I have. I don't believe a cow is complex enough to care about.

Me and you have the exact same opinion. The difference is that where we draw a completely arbitrary line is in a different place.

It isn't arbitrary though. How can you believe animals with nervous systems braains and millions of neurons can not feel pain? I don't understand. It really feels like rationalizing rather than being rational.
 

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