Attacks in Paris

[Metal Biker]

What actions should Muslim leaders take to prevent 0.003% of Muslims being terrorist ?'

Edited for accuracy, and that's being hopeful.

You posted that a French Imam has condemned the attacks is in some way pertinent or even noteworthy. Is isn't, or at the very least it isn't in some way redeeming of the collective attitudes of the Islamic Community in France. Everyone with a sane amount of rationality would condemn it. It doesn't in any way make a statement for the whole of Islam to condemn these actions in the same way that a majoral silence condones it.

Obama has condemned it, so has the UN. Whoopee doo. Now do something to prevent it from spreading or taking more lives, it's gone on long enough. No more finger pointing, no more deliberating 'how it started, who's to blame, why are they doing this?'. No more bringing up past conflicts as an argument to justify their actions as 'understandable'. No more making comparisons about victims in Iraq and Afghanistan, no more talk about 'illegal wars'. It has served no purpose in stopping these murderers and hundreds of innocents, many of whom could possibly have condemned the actions of those respective governments, have been murdered regardless.

Islam is being defamed by this minority group. If there are those who fear for the integrity of Islam and want to reclaim the good name of Islam in the eyes of those in the 'Western' World or indeed the entire world, they themselves should actively take part in the eradiacation of ISIS alongside their 'Western' allies, not just point out the obvious that the killing of innocent civilians is a bad thing, believing that to be enough to challenge the hideous ideology that this minority group is championing as the 'true word of Islam'.

 

[WNRH]

People saying "ISIS need to be eliminated" how the hell do you do that?

They aren't a country, they aren't a race, they are a worldwide brand so to speak. You can't just go into a certain area, wipe them out and say goodbye to that threat. There are ISIS supporters in Manchester, Paris, London, New York.

I truly don't know how to stop this threat, with social media nowadays it is much easier to spread this brainwashing shit.

140ish people minimum have died tonight in a major western city. Those figures are common place every week in the Middle East by these nutjobs and it's only going to get worse sadly.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I'm not generalising here. I'm arguing that as a nation we should be going after ISIS. Not Muslims or the faith they choose to believe in.

But what or who is ISIS? They don't have it tattooed on their foreheads or wear yellow stars. I'm sure you can target their strongholds like Raqqa but the Iraqi army is already doing that for the major towns in Iraq. Syria is a different matter but foreign forces are carrying out attacks there. And ISIS is just a name. There are many more groups with a largely similar ideology and probably a huge number of Muslims who live under ISIS control who would be glad to see the back of them.

You can't condemn the attacks on innocents in Paris yet encourage the same thing on innocents in Iraq. And what do you do about individuals in other countries, our own included, who have the same ideology. Are we going to bomb Bradford or Luton?

 

[Metal Biker]

People saying "ISIS need to be eliminated" how the hell do you do that?

They aren't a country, they aren't a race, they are a worldwide brand so to speak. You can't just go into a certain area, wipe them out and say goodbye to that threat. There are ISIS supporters in Manchester, Paris, London, New York.

I truly don't know how to stop this threat, with social media nowadays it is much easier to spread this brainwashing shit.

140ish people minimum have died tonight in a major western city. Those figures are common place every week in the Middle East by these nutjobs and it's only going to get worse sadly.

And yet we all sit at home, shaking our heads and lament at how awful it all is.

If someone was drowning in front of you would you state how depressingly sad it was, or would you chuck them a lifebelt?

 

[WNRH]

And yet we all sit at home, shaking our heads and lament at how awful it all is.

If someone was drowning in front of you would you state how depressingly sad it was, or would you chuck them a lifebelt?

There are hardly any rivers or lakes where I live.

In other words I haven't a clue what connection you are trying to make there.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

And yet we all sit at home, shaking our heads and lament at how awful it all is.

If someone was drowning in front of you would you state how depressingly sad it was, or would you chuck them a lifebelt?

What's your solution then - more bombs and bullets? More innocents killed as "collateral"? To use your drowning analogy, you'd throw people off a ship so you could rescue people in the water.

 

[WNRH]

What's your solution then - more bombs and bullets? More innocents killed as "collateral"? To use your drowning analogy, you'd throw people off a ship so you could rescue people in the water.

Not that I agree PB with Metal Biker but what is the solution? With the internet a vital necessity of life how will ISIS ever be eradicated?

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

And yet we all sit at home, shaking our heads and lament at how awful it all is.

If someone was drowning in front of you would you state how depressingly sad it was, or would you chuck them a lifebelt?

Not really an accurate analogy, of course if someone was in front of you, you would try and save them, but if I said to you, someone is drowning somewhere in the world, we dont know where but save them. How would you go about it?

Nobody knows where the terrorists are, to over react and start killing innocent people, wont get us anywhere, in fact will probably set us back. I am all for stopping these evil cunts, and all for killing those involved, but not at the risk of making matters worse.

Act in haste, repent at leisure

 

[Blue&whitestripes]

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Can't recall - sorry - who originally posted this article but it is well worth a read on the subject of "who is ISIS'

 

[Metal Biker]

There are hardly any rivers or lakes where I live.

In other words I haven't a clue what connection you are trying to make there.

Actions. Speak. Louder. Than. Words.

Your sentiments of remorse and condemnation, as are everyone's, are very respectful and welcomed, but it does nothing to aid towards preventing this from happening again elsewhere. Making comparisons of sufferings in other nations only serves to highlight the incentive that a more active approach needs to be adopted, not just by those ISIS target, but by everyone who opposes their poisonous 'ideology'. Mourning the victims and highlighting the plight of others, however honourable, has done nothing to halt their influence, has it. A defeatist attitude, certainly doesn't.

 

[TCIB]

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Can't recall - sorry - who originally posted this article but it is well worth a read on the subject of "who is ISIS'

You should be sorry sonny jim, i did and i demand credit, credit from every bastard on this thread you bugger ;-P

In fact where is my parade you set of shits :-D

It was a good read, it is ten to the power of my arse better than the terrible way say the daily mail would do the same article haha, can you imagine xD

 

[Blue Haze]

People saying "ISIS need to be eliminated" how the hell do you do that?

They aren't a country, they aren't a race, they are a worldwide brand so to speak. You can't just go into a certain area, wipe them out and say goodbye to that threat. There are ISIS supporters in Manchester, Paris, London, New York.

I truly don't know how to stop this threat, with social media nowadays it is much easier to spread this brainwashing shit.

140ish people minimum have died tonight in a major western city. Those figures are common place every week in the Middle East by these nutjobs and it's only going to get worse sadly.

Isis controls a state, the Islamic State. It is a caliphate. Their leader, the caliph Abu Bakr al Baghdadi, is their leader. Isis' legitimacy rests on his claim that be is a direct descendant of the Prophet.

Killing him and eliminating their state could well eliminate Isis, because a true caliphate expands until it encompasses the globe.

 

[Metal Biker]

Not really an accurate analogy, of course if someone was in front of you, you would try and save them, but if I said to you, someone is drowning somewhere in the world, we dont know where but save them. How would you go about it?

Nobody knows where the terrorists are, to over react and start killing innocent people, wont get us anywhere, in fact will probably set us back. I am all for stopping these evil cunts, and all for killing those involved, but not at the risk of making matters worse.

Act in haste, repent at leisure

It's an analogy on the current mindset of those offering their condolences, not on the response to the situation at present. We've been here before time and time again, same responses, same sentiments, same outcomes. Our attitude needs to change from "how sad..." to "enough is enough".

 

[WNRH]

Actions. Speak. Louder. Than. Words.

Your sentiments of remorse and condemnation, as are everyone's, are very respectful and welcomed, but it does nothing to aid towards preventing this from happening again elsewhere. Making comparisons of sufferings in other nations only serves to highlight the incentive that a more active approach needs to be adopted, not just by those ISIS target, but by everyone who opposes their poisonous 'ideology'. Mourning the victims and highlighting the plight of others, however honourable, has done nothing to halt their influence, has it. A defeatist attitude, certainly doesn't.

So how are you dealing with the threat of ISIS then and how do you suggest I and others do the same?

 

[Metal Biker]

Not really an accurate analogy, of course if someone was in front of you, you would try and save them, but if I said to you, someone is drowning somewhere in the world, we dont know where but save them. How would you go about it?

Nobody knows where the terrorists are, to over react and start killing innocent people, wont get us anywhere, in fact will probably set us back. I am all for stopping these evil cunts, and all for killing those involved, but not at the risk of making matters worse.

Act in haste, repent at leisure

It's an analogy on the current mindset of those offering their condolences, not on a militaristic response to the situation at present. We've been here before time and time again, same responses, same sentiments, same outcomes. Our attitude needs to change from "how sad..." to "enough is enough".

 

[Proy]

But what or who is ISIS? They don't have it tattooed on their foreheads or wear yellow stars. I'm sure you can target their strongholds like Raqqa but the Iraqi army is already doing that for the major towns in Iraq. Syria is a different matter but foreign forces are carrying out attacks there. And ISIS is just a name. There are many more groups with a largely similar ideology and probably a huge number of Muslims who live under ISIS control who would be glad to see the back of them.

You can't condemn the attacks on innocents in Paris yet encourage the same thing on innocents in Iraq. And what do you do about individuals in other countries, our own included, who have the same ideology. Are we going to bomb Bradford or Luton?

When I say ISIS I'm using it very loosely merely to emphasise my point, that being I don't mean go to war on the Muslims as a religion/race. I don't want to generalise them all as terrorists when they're not.

ISIS is a fairytale in terms of its name, the reality is that these groups are spread far and wide and all under different guises/names ISIS being one. I would hope that we have some idea or form of intelligence in respect of where the main strongholds are to give us the opportunity to make some inroads.

We have to find these people individually, practically impossible I know, otherwise another night like tonight will only be around the corner.

It will end up in another war though.Certainly if the Americans have anything to do with it. Just purely for the sake of responding and not having the knowledge about these people will force the hand.

As governments they can't sit idle every time there is an attack on either our shores/American or elsewhere in Europe. At some point there will be a reaction just like Iraq and that was done for the wrong reasons. Thousands of innocent people died in that war.

It was collateral damage wasn't it? Was it justified? Are Al Qaeda still prominent? Did they find those WOMD?

It's all bollocks and I'm really not sure what the answer is but another attack like tonight and somewhere, be it Syria or wherever in the Persian Gulf, will be invaded just to try and find them.

 

[WNRH]

Isis controls a state, the Islamic State. It is a caliphate. Their leader, the caliph Abu Bakr al Baghdadi, is their leader. Isis' legitimacy rests on his claim that be is a direct descendant of the Prophet.

Killing him and eliminating their state could well eliminate Isis, because a true caliphate expands until it encompasses the globe.

ISIS is nothing more than a cult. They have no end goal, they are brainwashed. How do you stop a British or French fanatic from killing just one person let alone hundreds on the basis of what he's seen, heard and liked on the internet?

Terrorists no longer have to go to the desert to be trained to kill innocent civilians, they are home grown terrorists who gain their knowledge on the internet.

I'm not sure how you can stop it.

 

[BigOscar]

ISIS is nothing more than a cult. They have no end goal, they are brainwashed. How do you stop a British or French fanatic from killing just one person let alone hundreds on the basis of what he's seen, heard and liked on the internet?

Terrorists no longer have to go to the desert to be trained to kill innocent civilians, they are home grown terrorists who gain their knowledge on the internet.

I'm not sure how you can stop it.

Either go super nice to Muslims to starve the extremist groups of disenfranchised recruits or burn down the haystack to find the needles. Neither sound plausible

 

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

It's an analogy on the current mindset of those offering their condolences, not on the response to the situation at present. We've been here before time and time again, same responses, same sentiments, same outcomes. Our attitude needs to change from "how sad..." to "enough is enough".

Not really, its inaccurate, if someone is drowning in front of you, the threat is immediate and obvious, so you act as quickly as possible.

In this case, the threat isnt immediate and certainly not obvious, we need to take stock and react in a more intelligent manner or we will end up with another cluster fuck like Iraq and Afghanistan. Killing innocents in response to killing innocents makes us no better than those who have done this. We need the whole world to come together first and deal with them together, or the situation will get a lot worse, with Russia being threatened and attacked this is a distinct possibility. When talking of terrorists my attitude has always been enough is enough but only when talking about terrorists. I want IRA stopped but that doesnt mean I want the whole of Ireland obliterating to achieve that.

 

[Blue Haze]

ISIS is nothing more than a cult. They have no end goal, they are brainwashed. How do you stop a British or French fanatic from killing just one person let alone hundreds on the basis of what he's seen, heard and liked on the internet?

Terrorists no longer have to go to the desert to be trained to kill innocent civilians, they are home grown terrorists who gain their knowledge on the internet.

I'm not sure how you can stop it.

It's very possible that these people are recruited by the central authority of Isis. It is hard to make explosive belts, get automatic weapons and ammo, and coordinate without anybody talking to the police.

That often requires planning. We can't stop every fanatic, but we can cut off their center of supply, organization, money and manpower.

These people aren't traditional terrorists. Their state is based on the idea that the caliphate will expand forever. If that doesn't happen, Muslims will regard al Baghdadi as a false prophet and abandon him.