Attacks in Paris

This is a war we cannot win by strength and violence alone.

We are fighting people who are not afraid to die and are not afraid to kill hundreds and thousands of innocent people in the process. Their strength comes by getting us to retaliate and giving them more followers. One loss of life for us hurts more than a thousand deaths for them. Hence why they are willing to risk 3 or 4 lives to kill 100+ of ours.

We need to show solidarity, humanism and strength in this situation. We need to bring ourselves (the nations, the people and the religions) closer together in the wake of these attacks not grow further apart. We will stop ISIS by stopping people becoming extremists. That is what we need to target not a revenge attack.

Some of the comments on here are exactly what they will want. Blaming Islam, turning it into the West Vs Islam, hence giving normal everyday hard working Muslims a reason to feel alienated in their own society and perhaps give them that chip on their shoulder to possibly join IS.

We need to accept that being a multicultural country means having an equal place for all religions. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that on a whole Islam receives quite a lot of negative press in the media compared to other religions. Even on a small scale, people have commented on how the media report City's owners and would not dare say similar things about a Jewish owner. All of the small and snidey remarks cause friction between society.

You kill their leader and another one takes his place. You stop people joining their cause and their leader has no followers.
 
Blue Smarties said:
Are we sure Jason Manford stopped posting on here? Reads like it's straight off of BM. Facebook deleted it.

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Love that, well done Jason.
 
kas_tippler said:
All done on islams day of prayer.
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That's about as relevant as it being done on children in need day.
Tragic scenes still emerging in the media. Horrible to think of so many people going out for the evening and never making home to their families and loved ones again.
 
totallywired said:
You have just been made to look like a fuckin barmpot with your last quote you had to edit, because it was bullshit. Give up you spineless hateful dick. Why all the hate for muslims? The usual right wing nutters will be out, trying political point scoring and spreading hate. Like the FN in France, the edl, nf etc. and you.over here.
Solidarity with the people of France, sympathy and solidarity to the families of the the people murdered.
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Unlike yourself, I'm not going to be offensive or insulting, I attack ideas not posters on here. The event is sickening, unarmed innocent men women and children were out enjoying a concert.

I deleted the post as mentioned before, it was as soon I discovered it was fake. I could have highlight that as the attacks were happening Corbyn's old pals at "Stop the War" were suggesting how Muslims will be the real victim as attacks were still being carried out, to me that's extremely insensitive to the victims and victim's families, the Guardian are at it as we speak as well as wikileaks.

Yet I am ridiculed for suggesting partially the route cause was Merkel inviting the world to swarm Europe without any vetting in place which has caused tragic deaths of innocent men, women and children. I mentioned this at the time but was banned from the refugee thread.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
I think in some cases we've gone beyond that now. We hide behind our "we're morally superior" stance and they take advantage of it time and time again. They know we won't react with violence. A smaller analogy would be the school bully punching you in the face whilst teacher is watching, but you refuse to fight back. But then the teacher does nothing to intervene, so the buly keeps punching. But you steadfastly refuse to fight back because "violence in wrong". Well whose left with the mangled face?

Our hand has been forced to react but it is ow we go about it that will be key, and I honestly believe that a unified effort by Muslim leaders and those in the "West", both catagorically defining these barbarians as having nothing to do with Islam, not identifiable with Islam and that both forces would join to eliminate the fuckers, leaves their whole "The West is targeting Islam! This is why we fight and why all Muslims should support us!" arguement hollow when you've got armed forces of Islamic nations siding with forces from non-Muslim nations. It gives a very different impression that Islam is being targeted when Muslims themselves are voluntarily joining in with the response, whatever that response may be.
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Agree and that means our media and populations have to start to separate them from Islam and create that divide in everyone's minds. We have to divide them and separate them from Islam, we have to bomb their infrastructure we have to act against our allies to cut their funding. We have to show their ideology for what it is and we have to stop giving them propaganda opportunities. The west also has to work out what it wants in the Middle East and stop being best friends with some of the worst regimes whilst demonising others. Getting rid of reliance on oil would also help
 
Syrian passport found on one of the gunmen
So now it begins to unravel, wonder if he had a nice new shiny iphone and an orange life jacket in his back pack
 
There are a lot of posts here which try to either connect or disconnect Islamic Terrorism with general Muslim attitudes. What no one has done is justify their position. I would imagine the best way to make or break that connection would be to ask Muslims their views.
This of course has been done many times but I don't see anyone using that data to justify their position.

I would expect 100% of Muslims to reject Terrorist attacks as legitimate.
 
geoff clipp said:
Why should they!? Most people already know this. Why should a peaceful muslim have to stand up and distance themselves from the actions of a relatively small number of people from the other side of the world practicing an entirely different branch of the religion? If your default position is that they condone it unless stating otherwise, then you're the one with the problem. If you have a problem with Muslims just own it, but don't come out with all this bullshit.

It's a moot point anyway. There are plenty of initiatives in the Islamic community that speak out about this kind of thing. Unfortunately they don't tend to cover it in the Sun or the Daily Mail or whatever shit rag you're getting your information from.
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LOL
 
Scottyboi said:
Solidarity has to be the social media's most used word lol has only been used recently.
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HAHA

The good old hashtags come out during these events, people are naive if they think a hashtag is going to defeat ISIS. Try better vetting and a few more drone attacks.
 
I am by no means a warmonger but surely a few battlefield defeats would dent their morale and slow down recruitment?

I heard someone on 5Live earlier saying that success breads success and at the moment IS/ISIS/ISIL, whatever you want to call them are appearing very successful to would be recruits

Thoughts are with the friends and families of the victims

Last point - how fucking potty does a person have to be to act like this. I know people have been doing it for years but to blow yourself up to murder civilians on the strength that someone they call 'God' will somehow reward you is fucking preposterous as far as I am concerned

I watched a documentary on C4 about these jihadis, by-enlarge they all seem like misfits and peodophiles. I suppose that's how they recruit though, look for loners and weirdos then promise them whatever it is they promise them - backward, the fucking lot of them
 
EalingBlue2 said:
Liberals don't defend them they just hate the far right using this as an excuse to further their own hateful ideologue. Liberals are after all ISIS real enemy as it is liberal ideas they hate.
Other than that a great deal of sense in the post
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By using the argument that opposing rhetoric against Islamic State breeds contempt for all Muslims by the far-right (who are themselves a minority), liberals are preventing serious dialogue about how to deal with IS and Islamism by, unintentionally, connecting the two ideologies. People are joining their cause because they believe in the ideology, not because of the cause or their leader. You destroy the ideology by giving it nothing to latch onto, just as we did with Nazism. The far-right are violent thugs but despite all their gesturing there is no worldwide group of armed activists prepared to go to war with the Islamic World or commiting terror attacks across the world. At best they manage to attack individuals but more often than not they are arrested and sentenced by the letter of the law. Sure, there are examples such as lone wolf incidents like Brevik, but i'm struggling to recall an active group that has threatened other nations, or done any of the actions that IS has done recently in the name of far-right politics.

We don't need to 'accept' multiculturalism nor do we need to 'accept' there should be a place for all religions in our society. I understand that at first glance that sentence makes me look a bit of a little Englander, but I will explain what I mean by that statement. We should be TOLERANT of them, because despite our willingness to accept people from other cultural differences, there are still, for my own personal example, many parts of the three organised abrahemic religions that I cannot condone nor support. Tolerance, not acceptance is what our nation should be. Everything should be still open to ridicule, even if it upsets you or hurts your feelings. But when someone oppresses your right to practice what you believe, only then should the law be involved and should society condemn them.

Liberals tend to get offended on other people's behalf, even when the group they are 'defending' have no real opinion on the matter in question. Many fear that attacking IS will see anger in the eyes of moderate Muslims here in Europe and create more extremists. How do they know that? And why would a moderate Muslim care what happens to these Islamist thugs? They have no connection to their religion or their beliefs. The dialogue needs to change and everyone needs to stop making the connection between Muslims and Islamists. Maybe even a change in association by not using Islamic terminology such as Jihadists to refer to IS members. Even 'Terrorists' these days carries a perceptive blanket term in the media to mean 'pissed off Muslims'. It needs to change, we need to stop using Islamic terminology to refer to them. Separate them completely from Islamic ideology, then they'd have no support anywhere in the world.
 
Saw this on Britain Furst on Facebook. Sums it all up beautifully;

Why is a massacre turned into a Circus?

On Friday night, more than a hundred innocent civilians were mercilessly killed in their own capital. Paris faced coordinated shootings and bomb attacks. They were inexcusable, inhumane, and indiscriminate. We all know this. We all feel this.

But as is familiar with every terrorist attack by now, a Circus ensues. Tim Montgomerie and similar political pundits, before the blood of the victims had even dried, immediately declared that "we are at war". The chorus that followed blamed Muslims, refugees, immigrants, and anything in between for these attacks. This is Act One of the Circus.

Muslims and other members of the public then respond to Act One, pointing out that it is unfair to generalise the actions of so few, on to so many. And that, in fact, Muslims themselves are the biggest victims of this kind of terrorism. For example, on Thursday, dozens of Muslims were killed in a similar terror attack in Lebanon. This is Act Two.

Act One and Act Two continue to interact. Meanwhile, anti-Muslim sentiment drastically rises. Racist or discriminatory attacks follow, particularly against Muslim women. Perpetrators fail to realise that they are targeting innocent people, the very same way terrorism does.

As a result, a friction emerges within communities. This friction acts as a catalyst for extremism. Put simply, the more alienated Muslims are within Western society, the easier they become recruitment targets for groups like ISIS. The narrative of "You do not fit it, they do not want you here" will be easier to embed, because it is suddenly repeated by all sides of the discourse.

And the cycle rages on.

What makes this worse, is that it happens every time. After the first dozen times, you would expect that a comprehensive strategy of avoiding political statements and instead expressing solidarity and empathy within communities would have taken hold. This would counteract the poisonous repercussions (beyond civilian casualties) of such terrorist acts - it would avoid some of the confusion and terror.

But no, for a loud minority, the opportunity to capitalise on horror and massacres, to reinforce prejudice and hatred, is too difficult to ignore. It simply has to happen. For them, the Circus must commence.

And we're back to square one
 
EalingBlue2 said:
I think Wahhabism has been behind nearly everything , the ideology that is paid for and promoted by our dear dear friends the Saudi's. The trouble is the only people who can probably defeat Wahhibism are our worst enemies the Iranians who are the arch enemy of most of our dear friends, Meaning the only people who could defeat our worst enemies are our other worst enemies but we can't work with them because our best friends won't let us because our worst enemies are their best friends .
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Spot on.
 
OB1 said:
Does it?
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It's going ahead, been confirmed, correct decision. Will show how insignificant those parasites are.

French fans singing the national anthem after the attacks took place....

 
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