Attacks in Paris

KenTheLandlord said:
They have been doing, the problem is you have to dig a little and they are not all necessarily in the UK country.
Here is one from last August 2014 which will link you through to the sources. http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/08/muslims-condemn-isis.html
Another from an interview with Iyad Ameen Madani, http://theglobalobservatory.org/2014/09/counter-isis-multifaceted-approach-iyad-madani-oic/
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Two examples. This islam against the world shit has been going on in a serious sense how long? And im given two examples. That said its ridiculous to expect you to give fucking hundreds but lets be honest if i were to drive from my home in leeds to the centre of the neighboring town Bradford. I would pass over a dozen mosques. Are they ALL doing enough. You cant prove they are anymore than i can theyre not. Im merely hoping last fridays events perhaps focuses the need a bit more. NO to terrorism in any form from any denomination.
 
Aguerovic said:
Before the US-Soviet War in Afghanistan, there was no such thing as Islamic Terrorism and groups like ISIS, Al Qaeda. That war in the 1980s completely changed the world we live in right now. I don't know if many people know much about politics here. When the Russians/Communists were fighting in Afghanistan, trying to protect their puppet government, USA's plan was to train the "Mujahideen" and their plan was to "indoctrinate" the people against the communists, using twisted terms from the Quran. This is where Bin Laden, who was an US agent, was sent to train the masses. Incidentally, this is when Al-Qaeda was formed and at the time, its primary objectives were to fight the Communists out. Well, eventually all this US help led to the Al-Qaeda becoming powerful and eventually they betrayed the Americans. They then spread their ideology throughout the Middle East, places like Iraq where ISIS was formed. They committed thousands of terrorist attacks on the world ever since then. ISIS were just part of the Al-Qaeda.

It's just unfortunate, that this war in Afghanistan still haunts people to this day. The amount of military spending done by the US and the West just so they could eradicate Al-Qaeda, is absolutely mindboggling. There's just times where you can pray time machines were around. I can't blame the Americans here though, they were just naive and they were thirsty to neutralise any Soviet influence at the time but it backfired immensely, to the point, world is indirectly suffering from this.

Anyone have any questions on this, feel free to ask.
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You forgot the star date.
 
bluemoonmatt said:
i really didnt mean that comment offensively. Back in the 80s every terrorist event was claimed by the ira (or some poor irish fella got fitted up for it) hence what some people used to say. No offence was intended
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Wasn't taken offensively, but I was a kid living in the UK during some of the worst of the bombing and if you were Irish you got a lot of shit over it, so as I said, not how I remember it.
 
RichardDunneOwnGoal said:
She has no more an axe to grind than Reza Aslan.

You went for the textbook ad hominem to undermine her, the very kind she discussed in part of her speech.

I repeat: embarrassing.
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There you go again. Putting down anyone who doesn't agree with you. Embarrassing, dishonest, lazy, obfuscate are all words you've used to describe arguments put forward that you don't accept. You're cleverer, more articulate and more subtle than others but you're plainly Islamophobic and determined to promote your view, in quite a sinister way. There are other posters who may broadly share your views but they make their points and have done with it whereas you appear to be on a mission. It appears to be part of your life to promote and propagate your views, as well as to figuratively shout anyone down who dares to challenge you. You say you welcome differing views; but that's only so you can be seen (in your eyes at least) to demolish them and prove the supremacy of your views.

The Haider woman is an "extremist" in the same way that Anjem Choudry is, just at the other end of the spectrum. She's no more stating "facts" than Choudry does, but using very specific issues and examples to make very sweeping points and generalisations.

Did you really say "There's Islam and there's Muslims"? That's when the penny finally dropped as it's a classic trick I've seen from an NF member years ago when finding out one of the group he was expounding his anti-semitic views revealed they were Jewish. "Of course I don't have a problem with YOU but with the religion in general". His pitch was quite simple, as was Hitler's. Judaism was intrinsically evil, seeking to control and pervert. But when challenged, his pitch changed to some individual Jews might be an exception to the rule.

Substitute Islam for Judaism and Muslim for Jew and that's pretty well your pitch as well isn't it?
 
coleridge said:
I make it a rule not to discuss such things, but this week is exceptional. I am just back from Juma at Manchester Masjid. The usual TV cameras were there, North West Tonight I think. There were many prayers to protect both this country of ours and all peoples around the world from any harm, including from those who take Islam's name in vain.

It's easy for people who have not really had to deal with religion to then lecture everyone else. That achieves nothing. It merely appears to be a device to achieve childish self-satisfaction. The world is far more serious than that. If you merely dismiss people's beliefs as nonsense, they will never have any respect for you in return.

I'm signing out of this nonsense now. Not because I care about the Trolling or having disagreement. It's merely because YOU ARE NOT ME...

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Well so long as there were prayers everything should be ok in a jiffy.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Islam may be a religion where there are all sorts of differing views and interpretations but on Bluemoon Ric makes the pope look like a consensus politician. One of the questions at the interview he asks is "What is 2+2" to which the correct answer is "Whatever you say it is Ric".
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Wow. It must be pretty sweet running a forum.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
There you go again. Putting down anyone who doesn't agree with you. Embarrassing, dishonest, lazy, obfuscate are all words you've used to describe arguments put forward that you don't accept. You're cleverer, more articulate and more subtle than others but you're plainly Islamophobic and determined to promote your view, in quite a sinister way. There are other posters who may broadly share your views but they make their points and have done with it whereas you appear to be on a mission. It appears to be part of your life to promote and propagate your views, as well as to figuratively shout anyone down who dares to challenge you. You say you welcome differing views; but that's only so you can be seen (in your eyes at least) to demolish them and prove the supremacy of your views.

The Haider woman is an "extremist" in the same way that Anjem Choudry is, just at the other end of the spectrum. She's no more stating "facts" than Choudry does, but using very specific issues and examples to make very sweeping points and generalisations.

Did you really say "There's Islam and there's Muslims"? That's when the penny finally dropped as it's a classic trick I've seen from an NF member years ago when finding out one of the group he was expounding his anti-semitic views revealed they were Jewish. "Of course I don't have a problem with YOU but with the religion in general". His pitch was quite simple, as was Hitler's. Judaism was intrinsically evil, seeking to control and pervert. But when challenged, his pitch changed to some individual Jews might be an exception to the rule.

Substitute Islam for Judaism and Muslim for Jew and that's pretty well your pitch as well isn't it?
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Ha, wow. A greater ad hominem attack you won't find.

This is a topic I've taken great interest in, I have no agenda but to see that other people discuss this honestly and minus political/personal bias. Something you haven't done.

Yes, ad hominem attacks are embarrassing. As is your's.

That "Haider woman" is an extremist equivalent to Choudary?

Fuck's sake. Where's that facepalm pic mate?

I'm Islamophobic, racist, homophobic, sinister. Anything else?

I've sincerely engaged all your points and all you've thrown in response are insults, and yes, often dishonest arguments.

I welcome differing views, but I cite my potential disagreement minus the insults, something you patently can't manage.

Did you really say "There's Islam and there's Muslims"? That's when the penny finally dropped as it's a classic trick I've seen from an NF member years ago when finding out one of the group he was expounding his anti-semitic views revealed they were Jewish.
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Once more, genuinely perplexed by your responses to me.

Quote me in whatever you're referencing. Do it now, if you're going to make the kind of accusations you are here now then you're bound to do so. Quote me in whatever you're building your foundation of an utterly absurd ad hominem attack upon.

I genuinely don't have the slightest fucking clue what you're talking about. If anyone's coming across as a lunatic, it's you mate.

You seem to have created this sinister caricature of what I am in your mind, and you're engaging that rather than the words and arguments you read on the screen. Genuinely bizarre.

You've compared me to a member of the NF and now of sharing a similar rationale with Hitler, is this some kind of a joke or something?
 
hilts said:
You can take the piss out of Christians as much as you like, you can question other religions you just have to tread very carefully
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Can you seriously believe what I've just had put to me, really?

In the context of this whole debate as well, in respect of the points raised about people who attempt to go near it being tarred as far right extremists etc etc.

Almost beyond parody.
 
RichardDunneOwnGoal said:
Can you seriously believe what I've just had put to me, really?

In the context of this whole debate as well, in respect of the points raised about people who attempt to go near it being tarred as far right extremists etc etc.

Almost beyond parody.
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I am literally staggered at what I have just read so much so that I have had to read the past few posts several times to check it is not some sort of parody or wind up. I think you should give up having proven your points and the fundamental points of the video you posted earlier in the most clearest way possible. if it was not so serious it would be funny. It is like banging your head against a wall.
 
worsleyweb said:
I am literally staggered at what I have just read so much so that I have had to read the past few posts several times to check it is not some sort of parody or wind up. I think you should give up having proven your points and the fundamental points of the video you posted earlier in the most clearest way possible. if it was not so serious it would be funny. It is like banging your head against a wall.
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Thanks mate. I'm tempted to report him, but what's the point.

Comparing Sarah Haiden to Anjem Choudary was the clincher for me. Pure lunacy.

Can't get too upset about being called a few choice words by someone who thinks like that.
 
RichardDunneOwnGoal said:
Can you seriously believe what I've just had put to me, really?

In the context of this whole debate as well, in respect of the points raised about people who attempt to go near it being tarred as far right extremists etc etc.

Almost beyond parody.
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I have been on here for a few years now and it has always been this way, I am not religious and have no axe to grind but if a Christian poster comes on and there have been a few they will get pelters, not much in the way of respect just real nasty belittling of his/her views, tantamount to bullying, talk about Islam or other religions in a negative manner and some dip shit will presume you are KKK, we are all adults do we have to put big disclaimers on every post stating we are not talking about all Muslims, Jews or whatever

Wouldn't make a difference anyhow they would still use it when they cannot argue their case

And don't ever expect an apology, that is the quality of poster you are dealing with
 
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