United Thread 2015/16

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der bomber28 said:
Might sound a bit clichéd, but there seems to be, an overwhelming cockney twang to that song. "We're fackin shit".
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It's goodbye to "Glory, Glory Man United"....

 
As somebody suggested earlier, appointing Mourinho is a desperate attempted to remain relevant. A last throw of the dice, maybe...

The real gamble is though that the man is a hurricane in management terms. He enthrals everybody in that Jose-centric whirlwind that is fascinatingly watchable and frighteningly uncontrollable in equal measure but, as often as not, just as quickly he leaves behind an expensive legacy of destruction and recrimination. Chelsea threw pots of money at repairing the damage done and, probably will do so again, now. It's an expense that one feels the Glazers are unlikely to happily meet though, for a third time, having by then already lavishly funded LVG and, no doubt, Jose too. At the same time, they can't afford to sell their golden goose if a club. They're stuck with each other, Utd and the Glazers. Fair to say too that they deserve each other...

The lack of forward thinking combined with blind faith in the wrong people (Ferguson handpicking Moyes/ Woodward's transfer policies) have now left them dangerously exposed. Their only clear policy now seems to be entirely reactionary. Worse again for them, their misguided sense self-importance and infallibility impair their reaction speed (such as only now addressing their academy) and crucially their decision making (signing Van Persie ahead of City and retaining Rooney at such costs were Pyrrhic victories, for example).

They really are not that far off of falling into, not just a state of repair but, an irreparable state.
If Juve are the Old Lady of Italian football, Utd are in danger of becoming the Norma Desmond of English football. An ageing drama queen lurching around a crumbling mansion, grumbling about how she used to be a star(!) and screeching that she's 'ready for my close up now, Mr Murdoch!'. Only Murdoch and the rest of the sycophantic media, like de Mille in the Sunset Boulevard, will have long since moved on to other projects, brighter stars.

They'll go for Mourinho, in my humble etc. Their ego and self-aggrandisement simply won't allow them to stand idly by whilst City appoint Pep. It has ever been thus. When we re-appointed Big Mal, they chose Big Ron; after Mc Neil came from Scotland, they jobbed Ferguson. They got lucky in those days. They had people who planned or they aligned themselves with those who did. The creation of 'the Big Five' for the notorious ITV deal and their going public, have them a huge financial advantage. We suffered dismally because we tried to keep up with the Jones's of Trafford.
Now, the poles have been reversed. It took a near-miracle to get us out of the shadows and back into the spotlight. Given our owner's financial clout and our growing our ever-increasing revenues, it will take something similar (or indeed more earth shattering) to rescue Utd, should the (surely inevitable) tenure of Mourinho end as chaotically as most of his previous appointments.
The conventional wisdom is that Utd are 'too big a brand' to be allowed fail and will always have a greater cachè than everybody else. That's probably what old Mr Gimbel thought when he looked across at Macy's first fancy Christmas window.
Interesting times ahead...
 
mad4city said:
As somebody suggested earlier, appointing Mourinho is a desperate attempted to remain relevant. A last throw of the dice, maybe...

The real gamble is though that the man is a hurricane in management terms. He enthrals everybody in that Jose-centric whirlwind that is fascinatingly watchable and frighteningly uncontrollable in equal measure but, as often as not, just as quickly he leaves behind an expensive legacy of destruction and recrimination. Chelsea threw pots of money at repairing the damage done and, probably will do so again, now. It's an expense that one feels the Glazers are unlikely to happily meet though, for a third time, having by then already lavishly funded LVG and, no doubt, Jose too. At the same time, they can't afford to sell their golden goose if a club. They're stuck with each other, Utd and the Glazers. Fair to say too that they deserve each other...

The lack of forward thinking combined with blind faith in the wrong people (Ferguson handpicking Moyes/ Woodward's transfer policies) have now left them dangerously exposed. Their only clear policy now seems to be entirely reactionary. Worse again for them, their misguided sense self-importance and infallibility impair their reaction speed (such as only now addressing their academy) and crucially their decision making (signing Van Persie ahead of City and retaining Rooney at such costs were Pyrrhic victories, for example).

They really are not that far off of falling into, not just a state of repair but, an irreparable state.
If Juve are the Old Lady of Italian football, Utd are in danger of becoming the Norma Desmond of English football. An ageing drama queen lurching around a crumbling mansion, grumbling about how she used to be a star(!) and screeching that she's 'ready for my close up now, Mr Murdoch!'. Only Murdoch and the rest of the sycophantic media, like de Mille in the Sunset Boulevard, will have long since moved on to other projects, brighter stars.

They'll go for Mourinho, in my humble etc. Their ego and self-aggrandisement simply won't allow them to stand idly by whilst City appoint Pep. It has ever been thus. When we re-appointed Big Mal, they chose Big Ron; after Mc Neil came from Scotland, they jobbed Ferguson. They got lucky in those days. They had people who planned or they aligned themselves with those who did. The creation of 'the Big Five' for the notorious ITV deal and their going public, have them a huge financial advantage. We suffered dismally because we tried to keep up with the Jones's of Trafford.
Now, the poles have been reversed. It took a near-miracle to get us out of the shadows and back into the spotlight. Given our owner's financial clout and our growing our ever-increasing revenues, it will take something similar (or indeed more earth shattering) to rescue Utd, should the (surely inevitable) tenure of Mourinho end as chaotically as most of his previous appointments.
The conventional wisdom is that Utd are 'too big a brand' to be allowed fail and will always have a greater cachè than everybody else. That's probably what old Mr Gimbel thought when he looked across at Macy's first fancy Christmas window.
Interesting times ahead...
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Very Stuart Hall-esque that!!
 
mad4city said:
As somebody suggested earlier, appointing Mourinho is a desperate attempted to remain relevant. A last throw of the dice, maybe...

The real gamble is though that the man is a hurricane in management terms. He enthrals everybody in that Jose-centric whirlwind that is fascinatingly watchable and frighteningly uncontrollable in equal measure but, as often as not, just as quickly he leaves behind an expensive legacy of destruction and recrimination. Chelsea threw pots of money at repairing the damage done and, probably will do so again, now. It's an expense that one feels the Glazers are unlikely to happily meet though, for a third time, having by then already lavishly funded LVG and, no doubt, Jose too. At the same time, they can't afford to sell their golden goose if a club. They're stuck with each other, Utd and the Glazers. Fair to say too that they deserve each other...

The lack of forward thinking combined with blind faith in the wrong people (Ferguson handpicking Moyes/ Woodward's transfer policies) have now left them dangerously exposed. Their only clear policy now seems to be entirely reactionary. Worse again for them, their misguided sense self-importance and infallibility impair their reaction speed (such as only now addressing their academy) and crucially their decision making (signing Van Persie ahead of City and retaining Rooney at such costs were Pyrrhic victories, for example).

They really are not that far off of falling into, not just a state of repair but, an irreparable state.
If Juve are the Old Lady of Italian football, Utd are in danger of becoming the Norma Desmond of English football. An ageing drama queen lurching around a crumbling mansion, grumbling about how she used to be a star(!) and screeching that she's 'ready for my close up now, Mr Murdoch!'. Only Murdoch and the rest of the sycophantic media, like de Mille in the Sunset Boulevard, will have long since moved on to other projects, brighter stars.

They'll go for Mourinho, in my humble etc. Their ego and self-aggrandisement simply won't allow them to stand idly by whilst City appoint Pep. It has ever been thus. When we re-appointed Big Mal, they chose Big Ron; after Mc Neil came from Scotland, they jobbed Ferguson. They got lucky in those days. They had people who planned or they aligned themselves with those who did. The creation of 'the Big Five' for the notorious ITV deal and their going public, have them a huge financial advantage. We suffered dismally because we tried to keep up with the Jones's of Trafford.
Now, the poles have been reversed. It took a near-miracle to get us out of the shadows and back into the spotlight. Given our owner's financial clout and our growing our ever-increasing revenues, it will take something similar (or indeed more earth shattering) to rescue Utd, should the (surely inevitable) tenure of Mourinho end as chaotically as most of his previous appointments.
The conventional wisdom is that Utd are 'too big a brand' to be allowed fail and will always have a greater cachè than everybody else. That's probably what old Mr Gimbel thought when he looked across at Macy's first fancy Christmas window.
Interesting times ahead...
Click to expand...
Some interesting points there, mate, but I have to disagree that their decline is conceivably terminal. I get the Adam Gimbel analogy, but it's right to say that his eponymously named department store was trading successfully for many decades after Macey's opened, albeit under more restricted circumstances. I think I can say with some confidence that the likelihood of them returning to the dominant position they held a decade ago is so remote as to be nigh on impossible, but that doesn't mean they won't continue to feature around the top of English football going forward. It may require a sale by the Glazers to ensure that outcome, and for much less profit than they had hitherto anticipated, but something will have to give eventually - and when it does the 'brand' has too much residual value and recognition for them to sink into mediocrity, much as it pains me to say it.
 
mad4city said:
As somebody suggested earlier, appointing Mourinho is a desperate attempted to remain relevant. A last throw of the dice, maybe...

The real gamble is though that the man is a hurricane in management terms. He enthrals everybody in that Jose-centric whirlwind that is fascinatingly watchable and frighteningly uncontrollable in equal measure but, as often as not, just as quickly he leaves behind an expensive legacy of destruction and recrimination. Chelsea threw pots of money at repairing the damage done and, probably will do so again, now. It's an expense that one feels the Glazers are unlikely to happily meet though, for a third time, having by then already lavishly funded LVG and, no doubt, Jose too. At the same time, they can't afford to sell their golden goose if a club. They're stuck with each other, Utd and the Glazers. Fair to say too that they deserve each other...

The lack of forward thinking combined with blind faith in the wrong people (Ferguson handpicking Moyes/ Woodward's transfer policies) have now left them dangerously exposed. Their only clear policy now seems to be entirely reactionary. Worse again for them, their misguided sense self-importance and infallibility impair their reaction speed (such as only now addressing their academy) and crucially their decision making (signing Van Persie ahead of City and retaining Rooney at such costs were Pyrrhic victories, for example).

They really are not that far off of falling into, not just a state of repair but, an irreparable state.
If Juve are the Old Lady of Italian football, Utd are in danger of becoming the Norma Desmond of English football. An ageing drama queen lurching around a crumbling mansion, grumbling about how she used to be a star(!) and screeching that she's 'ready for my close up now, Mr Murdoch!'. Only Murdoch and the rest of the sycophantic media, like de Mille in the Sunset Boulevard, will have long since moved on to other projects, brighter stars.

They'll go for Mourinho, in my humble etc. Their ego and self-aggrandisement simply won't allow them to stand idly by whilst City appoint Pep. It has ever been thus. When we re-appointed Big Mal, they chose Big Ron; after Mc Neil came from Scotland, they jobbed Ferguson. They got lucky in those days. They had people who planned or they aligned themselves with those who did. The creation of 'the Big Five' for the notorious ITV deal and their going public, have them a huge financial advantage. We suffered dismally because we tried to keep up with the Jones's of Trafford.
Now, the poles have been reversed. It took a near-miracle to get us out of the shadows and back into the spotlight. Given our owner's financial clout and our growing our ever-increasing revenues, it will take something similar (or indeed more earth shattering) to rescue Utd, should the (surely inevitable) tenure of Mourinho end as chaotically as most of his previous appointments.
The conventional wisdom is that Utd are 'too big a brand' to be allowed fail and will always have a greater cachè than everybody else. That's probably what old Mr Gimbel thought when he looked across at Macy's first fancy Christmas window.
Interesting times ahead...
Click to expand...

Fantastic post! I agree with every word of it.

I love your film metaphors, they really are "father and elder child" references.

I was thinking more "Fall Of The Roman Empire" or "A Star Is Born" but I'd plump for....

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Charlton tarts himself up ahead of signing Ronaldo, Messi and Bale.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Some interesting points there, mate, but I have to disagree that their decline is conceivably terminal. I get the Adam Gimbel analogy, but it's right to say that his eponymously named department store was trading successfully for many decades after Macey's opened, albeit under more restricted circumstances. I think I can say with some confidence that the likelihood of them returning to the dominant position they held a decade ago is so remote as to be nigh on impossible, but that doesn't mean they won't continue to feature around the top of English football going forward. It may require a sale by the Glazers to ensure that outcome, and for much less profit than they had hitherto anticipated, but something will have to give eventually - and when it does the 'brand' has too much residual value and recognition for them to sink into mediocrity, much as it pains me to say it.
Click to expand...

How soon can the Glazers afford to sell, though? More pertinently, to whom? Manchester and English football generally has very probably been ring-fenced off from Middle-Eastern and Chinese investment now. So what's left? Glazers MKII? Venky's MKII? Thaksin MKII?
Any of the above are just as likely as a new James Gibson (of whatever nationality) on a white steed. I get what you're saying about the residual value of their brand but you know, it's from monetising such entities that the likes of Mike Ashley became mega-rich. If Utd were to falter as a cash cow, the Glazers will sell to the highest bidder. Utd would need to be very fortunate for that bidder to also be the most suitable candidate. They'd need to get luckier again after that on the football side of things. And need to hit the jackpot to be able to sustain such successes.
Their name gives them more hope than most - just as ours did when we were down amongst the dead men (or Leeds does now) but it requires a bit more than a famous name to even beat Bournemouth and Norwich, let alone anything else. It's quite likely that they'd do a Liverpool but it's equally possible that they go into a nosedive. A good brand is all very well but I'm not at all sure that it's the guaranteed safety net they think it is.
 
OMG!!!! I'm listening to a cockney rag on talkshite who has just said that if baconface was in charge of this utd side, they'd be 10 points clear at the top!!
 
For the life of me I cant understand why they are not going for Mark Hughes, he seems an obvious choice to me. Alright he lacks the european experience but he generally plays good football and as a British manager it would feed there ego's as well. He has plenty of PL experience and the fans would back him from day one. I haven't seen his name being thrown in the ring once.
 
mad4city said:
As somebody suggested earlier, appointing Mourinho is a desperate attempted to remain relevant. A last throw of the dice, maybe...

The real gamble is though that the man is a hurricane in management terms. He enthrals everybody in that Jose-centric whirlwind that is fascinatingly watchable and frighteningly uncontrollable in equal measure but, as often as not, just as quickly he leaves behind an expensive legacy of destruction and recrimination. Chelsea threw pots of money at repairing the damage done and, probably will do so again, now. It's an expense that one feels the Glazers are unlikely to happily meet though, for a third time, having by then already lavishly funded LVG and, no doubt, Jose too. At the same time, they can't afford to sell their golden goose if a club. They're stuck with each other, Utd and the Glazers. Fair to say too that they deserve each other...

The lack of forward thinking combined with blind faith in the wrong people (Ferguson handpicking Moyes/ Woodward's transfer policies) have now left them dangerously exposed. Their only clear policy now seems to be entirely reactionary. Worse again for them, their misguided sense self-importance and infallibility impair their reaction speed (such as only now addressing their academy) and crucially their decision making (signing Van Persie ahead of City and retaining Rooney at such costs were Pyrrhic victories, for example).

They really are not that far off of falling into, not just a state of repair but, an irreparable state.
If Juve are the Old Lady of Italian football, Utd are in danger of becoming the Norma Desmond of English football. An ageing drama queen lurching around a crumbling mansion, grumbling about how she used to be a star(!) and screeching that she's 'ready for my close up now, Mr Murdoch!'. Only Murdoch and the rest of the sycophantic media, like de Mille in the Sunset Boulevard, will have long since moved on to other projects, brighter stars.

They'll go for Mourinho, in my humble etc. Their ego and self-aggrandisement simply won't allow them to stand idly by whilst City appoint Pep. It has ever been thus. When we re-appointed Big Mal, they chose Big Ron; after Mc Neil came from Scotland, they jobbed Ferguson. They got lucky in those days. They had people who planned or they aligned themselves with those who did. The creation of 'the Big Five' for the notorious ITV deal and their going public, have them a huge financial advantage. We suffered dismally because we tried to keep up with the Jones's of Trafford.
Now, the poles have been reversed. It took a near-miracle to get us out of the shadows and back into the spotlight. Given our owner's financial clout and our growing our ever-increasing revenues, it will take something similar (or indeed more earth shattering) to rescue Utd, should the (surely inevitable) tenure of Mourinho end as chaotically as most of his previous appointments.
The conventional wisdom is that Utd are 'too big a brand' to be allowed fail and will always have a greater cachè than everybody else. That's probably what old Mr Gimbel thought when he looked across at Macy's first fancy Christmas window.
Interesting times ahead...
Click to expand...
Brilliant
 
mad4city said:
How soon can the Glazers afford to sell, though? More pertinently, to whom? Manchester and English football generally has very probably been ring-fenced off from Middle-Eastern and Chinese investment now. So what's left? Glazers MKII? Venky's MKII? Thaksin MKII?
Any of the above are just as likely as a new James Gibson (of whatever nationality) on a white steed. I get what you're saying about the residual value of their brand but you know, it's from monetising such entities that the likes of Mike Ashley became mega-rich. If Utd were to falter as a cash cow, the Glazers will sell to the highest bidder. Utd would need to be very fortunate for that bidder to also be the most suitable candidate. They'd need to get luckier again after that on the football side of things. And need to hit the jackpot to be able to sustain such successes.
Their name gives them more hope than most - just as ours did when we were down amongst the dead men (or Leeds does now) but it requires a bit more than a famous name to even beat Bournemouth and Norwich, let alone anything else. It's quite likely that they'd do a Liverpool but it's equally possible that they go into a nosedive. A good brand is all very well but I'm not at all sure that it's the guaranteed safety net they think it is.
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I was of the opinion that the Utd brand was in the "too big to fail" category, that they'd reached a stage where even a prolonged period of under performing on the field would not dent the money rolling in. Woodward quoted how the Liverpool cow had dried up on the field yet could still yield oodles of money from it's clapped out udders, but the truly global nature of the game has speeded things up in a way that even the money men and pundits are having difficulty comprehending and City's rapid rise has demonstrated this in a way that has taken many, including many blues, by surprise.

Maybe astronomical brand rises are now to be matched by monumental brand falls, where brand loyalty is now fickle, rather than rock solid, passed down the generations by family and perpetuated by your peers.

As you say, maybe the Utd brand is not as secure as we all thought.

Interesting times.
 
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2sheikhs said:
OMG!!!! I'm listening to a cockney rag on talkshite who has just said that if baconface was in charge of this utd side, they'd be 10 points clear at the top!!
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They have been brainwashed, i know one who genuinely hand on heart argues that they once won the league by Xmas, Even though i have told him that it is mathamatically impossible he is insistant they did it.

Now how many time do you hear it in the media " they will have it won by Xmas" and the like, if you say something often enough people believe it, it is the same with GPC, we can not argue that he was a fantastic manager for them although his methods and personality left a lot to be desired but the stories passed down over the years have built him to be something he wasn't. He could cope with Wenger and to a point Mouriniho but once we became a genuine force he could not take it, he spunked everything onto the dutch rapist at the expense of the squad and then fucked off sharpish.
 
It's the fact that it's all on credit which is the thing that should scare them. When it starts to go tits, it only takes one or two flappers to set the shitstorm in motion.
 
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