Is our defence falsely ridiculed? (Probably Not)

If something is repeated often enough then the simpletons will believe it to be true.
That said we concede poor goals and have a couple of wobbles during most games so whilst we're far from solid we're also far from a shambles.
 
Helmet Cole said:
Mp always said from the day he arrived he wanted to play attacking football. Sometimes this is naive and innefective, but the alternative is José style anti-football and parking the bus. The defence was better under Mancini, but we often didn't get a sniff at the other end. Its all about balance and being able to adapt to the opposition.
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Hence Pep.
 
Nope, from this thread it seems people won't agree but I'd say there have been long spells, last season and this, where it has been pretty terrible. During those spells marking has been all over the place so any cross into the box becomes a problem, defenders don't track runners, people constantly diving in when just a bit of jockeying would be absolutely effective and leave us much less likely to be hopelessly exposed and when things aren't going well at the back the stepping up for offside looks like it becomes some kind of pathological desire with them doing it endlessly regardless of the situation. I don't buy the raw goals against stats, we are a good team, we boss many matches so tend to get attacked less than many other teams so of course we concede fewer goals but personally I think at times the number of chances we give away relative to the number of meaningful attacks we face is alarming. It's a good job that Joe Hart is fantastic at one on ones. I prefer to trust what I see and all I know is often we just don't look secure at the back and at times they really haven't looked like they have a clue what they are supposed to be doing in terms of the overall defensive system that the manager wants to employ. To be fair, it has improved quite a bit recently, no doubt at all, we are still conceding the odd ridiculous goal because of individual mistakes (not a great deal the manager can do about that) but it looks better organised generally and a lot calmer at the back. The stepping up for offside still happens but it looks more considered and appropriate when they do it and that's always a sign for me that the defenders have a better understanding of what is being asked of them. Still think attackers too often aren't getting picked up only a few yards out so we are giving away too many totally free headers from fairly ordinary crosses but presumably that is down to individual concentration. We too often allow opposition players to run unhindered at our back four which is more of a midfield problem than the back four but in terms of an overall defensive strategy is still pretty shit at this level and probably explains why at times our central defenders look so jittery and under pressure.
 
There is no doubt watching us defensively now in comparison to a few years ago is polar opposites.

For me it is a combination of things. Due to injuries/form we do not really have a settled centre half pairing. Im looking forward to having Kompany back but it seems to be forgotten he was the main part of the problem last season.

Also bringing in foreign centre backs seems to result in a longer transition period than in other positions. Mangalas form looked promising at the start of this year but had a poor first season. Otamendi positionally and desire to commit himself have contributed to the instabily in the back line this year. Even an experienced centre half like Demichaelis struggled at the outset of his time here.

The criticism is not all fair but you watch some games where City are banging on the door, controlling the game and posession and wonder how the opposition, with limited attacks, have created the best chances. Everton for example looked dangerous whenever they attacked.

There is reasons to be concerned but not to the extent it is portrayed.
 
Football is a team game, although individual errors often play a part. Any team can set up defensively. Just put 4 defenders on the 18 yard line and 5 midfielders no more than 15 yards in front of them and you probably won't let many in. You won't score that many but if defensive solidity is your aim then it'll do the job. The more players you push forward, the further the gap between your midfield and defence and the fewer players whose job is to protect that defence, then you'll concede more goals. We might typically have 7 or even 8 of our outfield players forward in certain circumstances leaving our defence wide open. The fact we've still got the third best defensive record suggests we might not be as bad as all that.

But, as usual, the media narrative drives the perception.
 
Because despite the record we look remarkably shaky!

Demi's experience is good against slower sides (keeps line well and reads the game well etc.) but when there is any pace thrown in I'm crapping myself

Sometimes think if some strikers in the league were better finishers our defence could be torn apart

Otamendi has massive potential - him and Vinnie partnership will be great I think, but we undoubtedly need stronger backup options when we have injuries
 
The ultimate teller of tales in the league is the table!

If only 3 teams have a better defensive record then we can't be that shit even if we do look like piss heads on a sunday pitch sometimes at the back.
We should be tighter yes but we are not exactly shit.

Nod to Spurs for only conceding 19, did not know they were keeping such a tight ship at the back.
 
On Tuesday our back four started with Yaya and Fernandinho in front of them as 'protection' and in front of those two were Navas, Silva, Iheanacho and Sergio. There were plenty of hairy moments admittedly but we came through it with a clean sheet, given the circumstances I'd say that was pretty amazing.
 
Definitely improving and seems to be since Otamendi has stopped going to ground constantly or deciding to disappear half way down the pitch which inevitably put pressure on the rest of the defence. Once he learns to stay on his feet and in position we will improve greatly.
 
Salford_Blue said:
Claudio will ensure our backline is constantly being turned round with over the top balls and the thought of De Michelis up against Vardy worries me greatly.

Did Martin play at their place or was it Mangala?
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Demi is mr reliable with a few games under his belt, it's otamendi you should be worried about, rash and jumping in far too often, heart attack defending... However, there are signs that he looks more settled along side Demi... It happened in 2014 post hull, see it happening again!!!
 
The defence is a symptom of how we play. We attack and I would rather that was the case.

Utd defend and look at how that is working out in terms of style.

As for Vardy and Leicester fans getting all giddy. Good luck to them but tomorrow will be one of the first times their defence will face a team that is constantly at them at the back. How good are they at the back, we shall see.

Put simply I fancy Sergio more against their defence than Vardy against ours.
 
I'd say a big reason our goals against isn't worse is Joe. Our defence has looked incredibly shaky without Kompany and too many times a striker has got one on one with our goal only for Joe to bail us out. I'm not saying they haven't played well at times cos they have but I for one can't wait until Kompany gets back.
 
mayo31 said:
The defence is a symptom of how we play. We attack and I would rather that was the case.

Utd defend and look at how that is working out in terms of style.

As for Vardy and Leicester fans getting all giddy. Good luck to them but tomorrow will be one of the first times their defence will face a team that is constantly at them at the back. How good are they at the back, we shall see.

Put simply I fancy Sergio more against their defence than Vardy against ours.
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Yeah I completely agree mate. Aggers hat trick ;)
 
The reason the defence is ridiculed is because it's technically a fucking shambles & every manager & player in football knows it.

If we get away with it then great, but the idea espoused by some, that because that hulking great Sunderland cb missed a free header when being completely unmarked by BOTH our cbs in spite of being the closest player to both, is somehow 'ok' & an 'understandable' mistake is beyond comedy. 'Oh he just sneaked in there, the little scamp' 'It was the straight line run that fooled us, we expected him to do something clever'.

Our defence has been a fucking joke so far since early season but some of the individuals in it, have had some good performances. The cbs played well on the whole v Sunderland but we also got luck when we fucked up like schoolboys.

And our defence was shite for 6 months last time we won the title but got better.
 
There are times our defence look like world beaters and other times (the times I hate) when the lads look like they just met each other for the first time in the changing room before the game. I believe its a matter of consistency - we havent had a settled back 4 for a long, long time due to injuries and the sheer amount of games we have to play. Look much better of late, but they'll still give us the shits half a dozen times tomorrow.
 
For me, we look better when Mangala isn't anywhere near it. I know someone will quote stats to defend him but my eyes tell me that we look more vulnerable when he plays unless he has Kompany babysitting him.
 
Millwallawayveteran1988 said:
For me, we look better when Mangala isn't anywhere near it. I know someone will quote stats to defend him but my eyes tell me that we look more vulnerable when he plays unless he has Kompany babysitting him.
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But 'babysitting' is a bit unfair I think, because he was very good early season in that partnership. All 3 of the other cbs have consistently made irrational decisions & had bizarre moments of total shutdown & it's difficult to know which is the best partner for Kompany (assuming Kompany comes back as the early season version rather than last season's 'nervous breakdown' version) because they all seem to be different players when next to him.
 
Third best defensive record and the best offensive record, you can not expect to have the best of both worlds but we re very close to it. If we maintain this we will be there or there abouts.

The thing that makes this even worse is the fact we shipped 4 goals on more than one occasion this season.
 
Millwallawayveteran1988 said:
For me, we look better when Mangala isn't anywhere near it. I know someone will quote stats to defend him but my eyes tell me that we look more vulnerable when he plays unless he has Kompany babysitting him.
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I think you also have to consider the role of Kolarov in this as well, i am not blaming him as he attacks as he is told to but this just leaves our defence exposed. Not just Mangala but anyone who plays there. No surprise that we have looked better since Clichy came back into the side.
 
abu13 said:
I think you also have to consider the role of Kolarov in this as well, i am not blaming him as he attacks as he is told to but this just leaves our defence exposed. Not just Mangala but anyone who plays there. No surprise that we have looked better since Clichy came back into the side.
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Agree. He would have been next on my list! However, Clichy is limited going forward. I think when Clichy plays, zab should play to counter balance it a bit.
 
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