Well done boss

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Performamce have been mixed in the league but it's been far from the poorest play possible. In the last month we have seen three good away lerforamces at Bournemouth, PSG and Chelsea.

Yes I would have liked to see Pellers adapt his tactics more but it is a myth to say Pellers always makes the same mistakes. At Chelsea, Pellers insisted that the normally Attack minded Kolarov stay back - even to the point where Mauel is still giving Aleks instructions at 3 nil up. This paid dividends during the game as three times in the first half Kolarov covers cross at the back post that had been hit across the six yard box!
Too little too late. Two away wins against teams who have nothing to play for, whilst good for us, doesn't really tell us anything new. The CL campaign has been great for the club and the fans and I'm happy to give him his due. Overall though, for two years we've been poor in the league. Whatever yardstick you choose to use there's no escaping that. The finishing positions might not look bad on paper but you can't tell me we've been anywhere near good enough to claim we deserve to have won it.
The only myth when it comes to his mistakes seems to come from his last couple of supporters. The fact your using one example in a game last week after he's been here nearly three years isn't enough to convince me otherwise.
 
No, the point was that if the whole group, or the majority of the group are demotivated, the manager is responsible. Whatever the industry.

A manager's job is to get the best performance they can out of the people who work under them. We can argue about team selection, tactics, recruitment etc and everyone will have a different view.

But those that are blaming the players for "not giving a toss" or "not trying" for the last 2 seasons are missing the point. If the majority of the players are demotivated, it is absolutely the manager's responsibility.

There a range of factors involved. Some of the players said they had been affected by the news of Pep coming, that was manipulated by the media into a "player clear out". This uncertainty is difficult to manage but we seem to have got through it!

Let's not forget that we have played loads more games than Newcastle. Kun looked weary in the second half. Also, they had dried out their pitch to affect our usual passing game.

I am looking forward to Pep making us more consistent winners but Peeles has done a decent Job!
 
Am I right in saying that Manuel's win ratio in the Premier League of 63% can only be bettered by the special **** and slur, with 66% and 65% respectively?

Or is there someone I've missed?
 
Am I right in saying that Manuel's win ratio in the Premier League of 63% can only be bettered by the special **** and slur, with 66% and 65% respectively?

Or is there someone I've missed?
It's probably correct. Not that it changes anything. It'll look decent on his CV though so there's that I suppose.
 
He's not their manager though. He has only ever been their temporary manager. Their substitute teacher. This has been the problem. If these players aren't self motivating now with a CL semi round the corner, a battle for 4th and the best manager in World football incoming in a matter of weeks then how do you expect a caretaker manager to motivate them?

To relate it to industry, you're basically asking someone who's been fired/placed on gardening leave to motivate his staff. It wouldn't happen in industry. In industry the conduct of players like Toure would have resulted in the sack.

It's a fair point, and may explain some of the motivation issues in the last three months, and arguably even all this season. But it doesn't explain motivation issues last season. He certainly wasn't a supply teacher then.

In Sorriano's book he talks about how different types of managers are needed for different situations. The example he used was Rijkaard was too easy on the players, they became complacent, lazy and unprofessional in his last season. The group needed someone charasmatic, a disciplinarian that wouldn't accept anything but the highest standards. They narrowed it down to Mourinho or Guardiola. They went with Guardiola and he created the best team in history, won the treble in his first season out of the same core group of players that Rijkaard finished 3rd with the season before.

Yes Guardiola is a brilliant tactician, but he also got more out of the group because of his personality and man management style.

It was kind of the opposite when we replaced Mancini with Pellegrini. I was a huge Mancini fan, but his man management style was to be aloof, dismissive, exacting in his standards and would accept nothing but the best. This alienated and demotivated some players in his final season. When replacing him we needed the opposite, a manager that would come in and take it easy on the players, be nice, amiable, easy going.

Personality wise Pellegrini was probably a good appointment at the time. We had a hugely talented squad who just needed the pressure taken off, needed to be loved. It worked and we played some great football that season and won the league.

But just as Mancini should have altered his man management style in his final season, perhaps Pellegrini should have altered his in his final two. It's clear there have been countless games in the last two seasons where we have been an absolute shambles.

As I say, the tactical, selection and recruitment side have been argued to death, everyone has a different view. But when a majority of players are demotivated, seemingly not trying or making simple mistakes, that has to be a man management issue. I refuse to accept we've just got a really rotten bunch who don't give a fuck.

They are the most successful team in England over the last 5 years, they are highly talented, highly motivated, driven individuals. If one or two players are demotivated that's unlucky. If it's the majority of the squad, that's a management issue. Jupp Heynkes won the treble when he was the supply teacher.

We now find ourselves in the exact same situation that Barca found themselves in before Pep took over. A highly talented squad who are nowhere near reaching their potential. We have a star player who is influential in the dressing room who has let his standards drop and probably gone on one season too far (Ronaldinho / Yaya). That could possibly affect the dressing room.

The squad needs to raise it's standards, raise motivation, to introduce some youth to reinvigorate it, make it ambitious again, make them run harder than before. Guardiola couldn't be coming at a more perfect time for us.
 
It's a fair point, and may explain some of the motivation issues in the last three months, and arguably even all this season. But it doesn't explain motivation issues last season. He certainly wasn't a supply teacher then.

In Sorriano's book he talks about how different types of managers are needed for different situations. The example he used was Rijkaard was too easy on the players, they became complacent, lazy and unprofessional in his last season. The group needed someone charasmatic, a disciplinarian that wouldn't accept anything but the highest standards. They narrowed it down to Mourinho or Guardiola. They went with Guardiola and he created the best team in history, won the treble in his first season out of the same core group of players that Rijkaard finished 3rd with the season before.

Yes Guardiola is a brilliant tactician, but he also got more out of the group because of his personality and man management style.

It was kind of the opposite when we replaced Mancini with Pellegrini. I was a huge Mancini fan, but his man management style was to be aloof, dismissive, exacting in his standards and would accept nothing but the best. This alienated and demotivated some players in his final season. When replacing him we needed the opposite, a manager that would come in and take it easy on the players, be nice, amiable, easy going.

Personality wise Pellegrini was probably a good appointment at the time. We had a hugely talented squad who just needed the pressure taken off, needed to be loved. It worked and we played some great football that season and won the league.

But just as Mancini should have altered his man management style in his final season, perhaps Pellegrini should have altered his in his final two. It's clear there have been countless games in the last two seasons where we have been an absolute shambles.

As I say, the tactical, selection and recruitment side have been argued to death, everyone has a different view. But when a majority of players are demotivated, seemingly not trying or making simple mistakes, that has to be a man management issue. I refuse to accept we've just got a really rotten bunch who don't give a fuck.

They are the most successful team in England over the last 5 years, they are highly talented, highly motivated, driven individuals. If one or two players are demotivated that's unlucky. If it's the majority of the squad, that's a management issue. Jupp Heynkes won the treble when he was the supply teacher.

We now find ourselves in the exact same situation that Barca found themselves in before Pep took over. A highly talented squad who are nowhere near reaching their potential. We have a star player who is influential in the dressing room who has let his standards drop and probably gone on one season too far (Ronaldinho / Yaya). That could possibly affect the dressing room.

The squad needs to raise it's standards, raise motivation, to introduce some youth to reinvigorate it, make it ambitious again, make them run harder than before. Guardiola couldn't be coming at a more perfect time for us.

He's been a caretaker from day one.
He could have won 3 leagues and 3 CL's He would still be out this summer.

I agree, it takes change to keep motivation and freshness.

Yet we keep turning out the same aging tired players. Pellegrini is flat, uninspiring, reaching the end of his career but nice. As are several of our squad now. It's a disasterous combination.

32 year old Sagna injured, let's see if a aging and leggy knackered Zabaleta can do better.
 
Jupp Heynkes won the treble when he was the supply teacher.

Jupp Heynckes was eons better than Pellegrini, he was never a supply teacher, rather a real mastermind.
When it came to defense, his team was as tough to break as Simeone's, and in offensive phase they were almost as prolific as Pep's .
If soccer players weren't needing managers to drive them all year round and build playing system according to their strengh, no club would be paying £12M for Pep and £4M for Pellegrini ( and it pains me to write that as this fraud is really stealing a living ).
 
It's probably correct. Not that it changes anything. It'll look decent on his CV though so there's that I suppose.

It doesn't change anything, however there's no harm in acknowledging it. If people did it may give them a sense of perspective which would hopefully lead to them showing a bit more respect to the man, instead of some of the distasteful stuff that's been posted on here.
 
There a range of factors involved. Some of the players said they had been affected by the news of Pep coming, that was manipulated by the media into a "player clear out". This uncertainty is difficult to manage but we seem to have got through it!

Let's not forget that we have played loads more games than Newcastle. Kun looked weary in the second half. Also, they had dried out their pitch to affect our usual passing game.

I am looking forward to Pep making us more consistent winners but Peeles has done a decent Job!

I think the problems run a bit deeper than just the Newcastle game mate.

I respect your view if you think Pellegrini has done a decent job. His win percentage is certainly fairly impressive. But let's be honest, you'd expect Glenn Roeder to win more than he lost with this group of players.

I think the only way to judge a manager is relative to what he has at his disposal. Look at Eddie Howe at Bournmouth, relative to his resources at Bournmouth he's done an incredible job. Louis Long Baal has a much better win percentage this season, but would you say in relative terms he's done a better job? I certainly wouldn't.

With our squad of players we should be challenging for the Premier League title every season for the last 5 seasons. Of course we can't win it every year, but we should certainly be going close. So when you look at his three years, first year we won it, great. Second year we came second by 11 points and really were never even in the race once winter was over. This season we are in a real fight for FOURTH place. Third at absolute best, we could finish as low as 6th, and there's 4 games to go!

The last two seasons have been a rank underachievement in the league relative to the talent of our squad. Yes he's got a good win percentage, but with our squad, he should have a good win percentage. We have not mounted a serious title challenge in his last two seasons, and if you think that is a decent job with this squad of players then maybe we have different views about when 'decent' looks like.
 
It's a fair point, and may explain some of the motivation issues in the last three months, and arguably even all this season. But it doesn't explain motivation issues last season. He certainly wasn't a supply teacher then.

In Sorriano's book he talks about how different types of managers are needed for different situations. The example he used was Rijkaard was too easy on the players, they became complacent, lazy and unprofessional in his last season. The group needed someone charasmatic, a disciplinarian that wouldn't accept anything but the highest standards. They narrowed it down to Mourinho or Guardiola. They went with Guardiola and he created the best team in history, won the treble in his first season out of the same core group of players that Rijkaard finished 3rd with the season before.

Yes Guardiola is a brilliant tactician, but he also got more out of the group because of his personality and man management style.

It was kind of the opposite when we replaced Mancini with Pellegrini. I was a huge Mancini fan, but his man management style was to be aloof, dismissive, exacting in his standards and would accept nothing but the best. This alienated and demotivated some players in his final season. When replacing him we needed the opposite, a manager that would come in and take it easy on the players, be nice, amiable, easy going.

Personality wise Pellegrini was probably a good appointment at the time. We had a hugely talented squad who just needed the pressure taken off, needed to be loved. It worked and we played some great football that season and won the league.

But just as Mancini should have altered his man management style in his final season, perhaps Pellegrini should have altered his in his final two. It's clear there have been countless games in the last two seasons where we have been an absolute shambles.

As I say, the tactical, selection and recruitment side have been argued to death, everyone has a different view. But when a majority of players are demotivated, seemingly not trying or making simple mistakes, that has to be a man management issue. I refuse to accept we've just got a really rotten bunch who don't give a fuck.

They are the most successful team in England over the last 5 years, they are highly talented, highly motivated, driven individuals. If one or two players are demotivated that's unlucky. If it's the majority of the squad, that's a management issue. Jupp Heynkes won the treble when he was the supply teacher.

We now find ourselves in the exact same situation that Barca found themselves in before Pep took over. A highly talented squad who are nowhere near reaching their potential. We have a star player who is influential in the dressing room who has let his standards drop and probably gone on one season too far (Ronaldinho / Yaya). That could possibly affect the dressing room.

The squad needs to raise it's standards, raise motivation, to introduce some youth to reinvigorate it, make it ambitious again, make them run harder than before. Guardiola couldn't be coming at a more perfect time for us.

He's been a caretaker from day one.
He could have won 3 leagues and 3 CL's He would still be out this summer.

I agree, it takes change to keep motivation and freshness.

Yet we keep turning out the same aging tired players. Pellegrini is flat, uninspiring, reaching the end of his career but nice. As are several of our squad now. It's a disasterous combination.
As I've said all along, we have a manager with no future being asked to manage several players with no future.

Nasri, Aguero, De Bruyne, Navas, Kompany, Clichy, Sagna even Otamendi and Mangala have shown a desperation to win.
Other players with futures in doubt have not.
Those who want a future have tried their best, looked up for the fight. Those with questionable futures, well I can't say the same for them.

32 year old Sagna injured, let's see if a aging and leggy knackered Zabaleta can do better.

As you say Pep was brought in to freshen up, re motivate the Barcelona squad. First thing he did was shift the furniture, fuck those off too comfortable. Replace with hungry younger players.

Txiki looks to be the common issue here. Afraid of egos. Afraid of making the big calls. Fortunately Pep will sort what Txiki hasn't.
 
It's a fair point, and may explain some of the motivation issues in the last three months, and arguably even all this season. But it doesn't explain motivation issues last season. He certainly wasn't a supply teacher then.

In Sorriano's book he talks about how different types of managers are needed for different situations. The example he used was Rijkaard was too easy on the players, they became complacent, lazy and unprofessional in his last season. The group needed someone charasmatic, a disciplinarian that wouldn't accept anything but the highest standards. They narrowed it down to Mourinho or Guardiola. They went with Guardiola and he created the best team in history, won the treble in his first season out of the same core group of players that Rijkaard finished 3rd with the season before.

Yes Guardiola is a brilliant tactician, but he also got more out of the group because of his personality and man management style.

It was kind of the opposite when we replaced Mancini with Pellegrini. I was a huge Mancini fan, but his man management style was to be aloof, dismissive, exacting in his standards and would accept nothing but the best. This alienated and demotivated some players in his final season. When replacing him we needed the opposite, a manager that would come in and take it easy on the players, be nice, amiable, easy going.

Personality wise Pellegrini was probably a good appointment at the time. We had a hugely talented squad who just needed the pressure taken off, needed to be loved. It worked and we played some great football that season and won the league.

But just as Mancini should have altered his man management style in his final season, perhaps Pellegrini should have altered his in his final two. It's clear there have been countless games in the last two seasons where we have been an absolute shambles.

As I say, the tactical, selection and recruitment side have been argued to death, everyone has a different view. But when a majority of players are demotivated, seemingly not trying or making simple mistakes, that has to be a man management issue. I refuse to accept we've just got a really rotten bunch who don't give a fuck.

They are the most successful team in England over the last 5 years, they are highly talented, highly motivated, driven individuals. If one or two players are demotivated that's unlucky. If it's the majority of the squad, that's a management issue. Jupp Heynkes won the treble when he was the supply teacher.

We now find ourselves in the exact same situation that Barca found themselves in before Pep took over. A highly talented squad who are nowhere near reaching their potential. We have a star player who is influential in the dressing room who has let his standards drop and probably gone on one season too far (Ronaldinho / Yaya). That could possibly affect the dressing room.

The squad needs to raise it's standards, raise motivation, to introduce some youth to reinvigorate it, make it ambitious again, make them run harder than before. Guardiola couldn't be coming at a more perfect time for us.
All of that very true, especially though "Yes Guardiola is a brilliant tactician, but he also got more out of the group because of his personality and man management style." That is what we lack at the moment. I think Mr nice is just too nice.
 
He's been a caretaker from day one.
He could have won 3 leagues and 3 CL's He would still be out this summer.

I agree, it takes change to keep motivation and freshness.

Yet we keep turning out the same aging tired players. Pellegrini is flat, uninspiring, reaching the end of his career but nice. As are several of our squad now. It's a disasterous combination.
As I've said all along, we have a manager with no future being asked to manage several players with no future.

Nasri, Aguero, De Bruyne, Navas, Kompany, Clichy, Sagna even Otamendi and Mangala have shown a desperation to win.
Other players with futures in doubt have not.
Those who want a future have tried their best, looked up for the fight. Those with questionable futures, well I can't say the same for them.

32 year old Sagna injured, let's see if a aging and leggy knackered Zabaleta can do better.

As you say Pep was brought in to freshen up, re motivate the Barcelona squad. First thing he did was shift the furniture, fuck those off too comfortable. Replace with hungry younger players.

Txiki looks to be the common issue here. Afraid of egos. Afraid of making the big calls. Fortunately Pep will sort what Txiki hasn't.
I agree with you that one of the underlying issues is Txiki. He appointed Pellegrini, he provided the raw material ,he's allowed a culture of couldn't give a fuck to take root.Its like the Prime Minister just pointing the finger at the Chancellor if the economy bombs.
 
He's been a caretaker from day one.
He could have won 3 leagues and 3 CL's He would still be out this summer.

I agree, it takes change to keep motivation and freshness.

Yet we keep turning out the same aging tired players. Pellegrini is flat, uninspiring, reaching the end of his career but nice. As are several of our squad now. It's a disasterous combination.

32 year old Sagna injured, let's see if a aging and leggy knackered Zabaleta can do better.

He's the third longest serving manager in the Premier League after Wenger and Eddie Howe. If he's a caretaker then every manager in the league other than Wenger is a caretaker. The average managerial tenure in English professional football is 1.23 years, Pellegrini has served well over double that!

He initially signed on a 3 year deal, so he should have been planning around that being his tenure, he's served the entire tenure of his contract. Sorriano has talked about managerial cycles going in 3 year cycles and then it's time for change, so you would assume Pellegrini was aware that was our CEO's management strategy. Guardiola signed for 3 years at Bayern, left after 3. He's signed a 3 year deal with us and I expect him to leave after 3. It's actually a fairly lengthy spell for a manager at the top of the game nowadays.

I accept everyone knew Guardiola was coming at the end of the season, but to be honest I think that bought him an extra season in the job. If a manager at Real, Barca or Chelsea had served up one as insipid as ours last season they would be out the door. Khaldoon said in his end of season review that we had fallen well short of expectations, he was visibly livid. The only reason he got the extra season was we knew Guardiola was coming and it made more sense keeping him than getting a caretaker in for a full season. If we didn't already have a deal in place for Guardiola he would have served two seasons, instead he got the additional sympathy season and he's made an absolute hash of it in the league. Again.

100% agree with you that it's a disasterous combination. As I said earlier, he does have a difficult job, knowing how to motivate comfortable millionaires who never have to work again to go and close down Lee Cattermole can't be easy. I'm not saying I could do it, it's a very particular skill set, but that's why he's getting paid 4million a year.

Again, 100% agree about Sagna and Zabaleta. There are clearly recruitment issues, as we've both agreed on. Personally I'd like to see some youth introduced to the side as it brings fresh legs, ambition, drive, motivation. I think that was one Slurgie's best tricks, introducing youth at the right time. They might not be as talented, but the eagerness can help add energy to the more established players. You've seen more of the youth team than me, so you'd know better than me who's ready and who isn't. But from what I have seen, there are certainly a few players who are ready to get more minutes and add some youthfullness and vitality to the team.

I'm not saying start them against Madrid, but maybe give them half an hour against Newcastle at home when we're 4-1 up. Start them against Norwich, whatever. I think the "lambs to the slaughter" approach away at Chelsea was probably the worst thing he could have done for their development. I understand you will say he's on a short term contract and can't take the risk of playing youth. But at the moment is Maffeo starting at right back a bigger risk than starting Zabaleta? Is starting one of the Garcia's instead of the tried and busted combination of Yaya and Fernando a bigger risk? Is starting anyone from the youth team left wing a bigger risk than playing Delph there?
 
Am I right in saying that Manuel's win ratio in the Premier League of 63% can only be bettered by the special **** and slur, with 66% and 65% respectively?

Or is there someone I've missed?
I don't think that's anything to write home abt is it?...He joined the best outfit in the PL imo so he actually should be right up there. I think Mancini's full 3 seasons were not far off 64%...It's a bit unfair to count the first half season he was here when we were mid table.
 
I don't think that's anything to write home abt is it?...He joined the best outfit in the PL imo so he actually should be right up there. I think Mancini's full 3 seasons were not far off 64%...It's a bit unfair to count the first half season he was here when we were mid table.

I never suggested it was. What I'm saying is that it should be taken into consideration when he's being judged and he should be afforded more respect than he gets from a significant number of Blues imo.
 
Am I right in saying that Manuel's win ratio in the Premier League of 63% can only be bettered by the special **** and slur, with 66% and 65% respectively?

Or is there someone I've missed?

Yeah that's about right. Makes me chuckle. The stats, they don't really marry up with the characterisations that the gobshites on the internet keep making up about Pellegrini. His win ratio is like our defensive record under him, misrepresented, misunderstood, and regularly lied about by the aforementioned gobshites to have a go at him.

I see the new way to show their disdain is to just post "tick tock". The irony is utterly lost on them. Poor lambs.
 
Whatever statistics get thrown around, for the first time in years, I've seen us get outclassed and twatted quite a few times this season. I, for one never expected that. It's not arrogance or entitlement, it's just that I expected better.
 
Whatever statistics get thrown around, for the first time in years, I've seen us get outclassed and twatted quite a few times this season. I, for one never expected that. It's not arrogance or entitlement, it's just that I expected better.

As I'm sure do the majority, still the slagging off he gets on the back of it is unwarranted.
 
Yeah that's about right. Makes me chuckle. The stats, they don't really marry up with the characterisations that the gobshites on the internet keep making up about Pellegrini. His win ratio is like our defensive record under him, misrepresented, misunderstood, and regularly lied about by the aforementioned gobshites to have a go at him.

I see the new way to show their disdain is to just post "tick tock". The irony is utterly lost on them. Poor lambs.
Whats his win % for the last 2 seasons? genuine question
 
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