EU referendum

[EalingBlue2]

Th

I don't think the Outers will ever give up though. And nor should they if they believe passionately that it's the right course. It's just quite tiresome for those of us who don't feel passionately about it one way or another and want to move on and make whatever choice has been made, work as best as we can.

EDIT: If of course we vote to remain, which who knows, we may not.[/QUOTE

They haven't shut up since the mid 80's no chance they will start now

 

[urmston]

Obama is a big fan of the US-EU TTIP trade agreement.

Follow his advice and vote Remain and TTIP will be along to destroy many UK jobs and worsen terms and conditions for many more.

 

[cibaman]

Whoever loses will continue with the fight. If we vote to stay in Cameron's deal will unravel. There will be new directives, treaty change, enlargement. Tory constituencies will continue to select more and more Eurosceptic candidates who will continue to argue that life outside of the EU will be milk and honey. They need us more than we need them.

If we vote to leave, unless Boris quickly negotiates a free trade deal with no obligations, the Remainers will argue that the electorate were conned, sold a false prospectus.

The difference between the two sides would be their timeframe. If we vote to remain the Leavers will probably bide their time. Wait for a few years for key event, a treaty change, or enlargement before calling for a second referendum. If we vote to leave, the Remainers will have to reverse the first referendum result before we legally leave.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Bloody hell, we're agreeing again. I don't know what's come over me ;-)

The other way of looking at it is that the Remain camp would need to watch us leave and plunge the country into recession in order to be able to say, "I told you it would be a fuck up". Either way, the in/out clubs are mutually exclusive.

Been a strange old thread this one, you agreed with me yesterday, oh for the good old days when we could rip each other over stuff we are used to.

Anyhow, another point that gets missed it that with TTIP looming, is not now a good time for the UK to stand up and support/partner Europe by taking the lead and be proactive rather than reactive part in the EU and saying what we really think and how we can add to the common good. We have sulked, moaned, whinged and muttered about everything and anything European. I often wonder if the Germans do half the things they do because they know the UK will take their ball home if it doesn't suit. Three Lions? Three pussies more like. For all the jingo merchants, it is unlikely the grandfathers fought in the war for us to dick about worried about everything. Europe became free because everyone worked together with a common objective. Apparently we are a powerhouse but act like a shithouse.
Sit down, thrash agreements out, help bend acts to the good of all and become a more powerful and more unified entity rather than the weasling, in/out, oaky coaky, hotch potch job we do now or worse, sit in the cold shouting how good we are rather than getting into the mix and being in the front seat.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Obama is a big fan of the US-EU TTIP trade agreement.

Follow his advice and vote Remain and TTIP will be along to destroy many UK jobs and worsen terms and conditions for many more.

Something you would normally applaud as a great virtue of capitalism surely

 

[hgblue]

Whoever loses will continue with the fight. If we vote to stay in Cameron's deal will unravel. There will be new directives, treaty change, enlargement. Tory constituencies will continue to select more and more Eurosceptic candidates who will continue to argue that life outside of the EU will be milk and honey. They need us more than we need them.

If we vote to leave, unless Boris quickly negotiates a free trade deal with no obligations, the Remainers will argue that the electorate were conned, sold a false prospectus.

The difference between the two sides would be their timeframe. If we vote to remain the Leavers will probably bide their time. Wait for a few years for key event, a treaty change, or enlargement before calling for a second referendum. If we vote to leave, the Remainers will have to reverse the first referendum result before we legally leave.

I don't think it's much of a secret that I'd like to see a Leave vote, but even I would have to admit that a second referendum if we vote to Remain is highly unlikely for a generation or more. The political class is having to pull out all the stops to secure a Remain vote and there's not a cat in hells chance that they'll put themselves through that again any time soon. The people will have spoken, they will have decided that high levels of migration, loss of parliamentary sovereignty, ever increasing budget contributions, the supremecy of the European court, etc, are all prices worth paying to be part of the single market. I happen to disagree with that but I can't advocate a referendum then disrespect the outcome by calling for another one when further integration happens, because that integration will have been given the green light by the British people. The ace that the British government has held in the past of a referendum of a largely sceptical public will be gone and the EU will feel emboldened to crack on with their agenda and will quite legitimately point to the referendum result to justify this. And you know what, don't come crying to the people who voted to leave when this happens.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

I don't think it's much of a secret that I'd like to see a Leave vote, but even I would have to admit that a second referendum if we vote to Remain is highly unlikely for a generation or more. The political class is having to pull out all the stops to secure a Remain vote and there's not a cat in hells chance that they'll put themselves through that again any time soon. The people will have spoken, they will have decided that high levels of migration, loss of parliamentary sovereignty, ever increasing budget contributions, the supremecy of the European court, etc, are all prices worth paying to be part of the single market. I happen to disagree with that but I can't advocate a referendum then disrespect the outcome by calling for another one when further integration happens, because that integration will have been given the green light by the British people. The ace that the British government has held in the past of a referendum of a largely sceptical public will be gone and the EU will feel emboldened to crack on with their agenda and will quite legitimately point to the referendum result to justify this. And you know what, don't come crying to the people who voted to leave when this happens.

Totally agree with all of that - by the time the youngsters who voted to remain realise that 10 years later when real life hits them on trying to get a house or a hospital appointment and that they voted to stay because they were worried they'd need a visa to get to Amsterdam or Ibiza to get trolled was based on nonsense, they may be a bit peeved off...

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Totally agree with all of that - by the time the youngsters who voted to remain realise that 10 years later when real life hits them on trying to get a house or a hospital appointment and that they voted to stay because they were worried they'd need a visa to get to Amsterdam or Ibiza to get trolled was based on nonsense, they may be a bit peeved off...

or maybe they realise now, it is the UK government that has put houses out of reach for most kids and dont want them having further power to ruin this country.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

Breaking news - far right freedom party comes out top on presidential election -

or maybe they realise now, it is the UK government that has put houses out of reach for most kids and dont want them having further power to ruin this country.

I see the far right freedom party seem to have won the Austrian presidential election in the last half hour breaking a monopoly by the two moderate parties dating back to 1945 - I suppose that's the UK governments' fault as well and nothing to do with the migration problems. Can't you see the polarisation the EU is causing in Europe with the rise of the far right and their odious ideology I mean bloody hell Hitler just annexed Austria these people have voluntarily voted for them!

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Breaking news - far right freedom party comes out top on presidential election -


I see the far right freedom party seem to have won the Austrian presidential election in the last half hour breaking a monopoly by the two moderate parties dating back to 1945 - I suppose that's the UK governments' fault as well and nothing to do with the migration problems. Can't you see the polarisation the EU is causing in Europe with the rise of the far right and their odious ideology I mean bloody hell Hitler just annexed Austria these people have voluntarily voted for them!

No, it has come top on the first round and is neck and neck with the pro-immigration guy.
Why would that be the UK government's fault?
So your answer is to run away and lock yourself on a little island?
Well, not you personally .

 

[AlgarveBlu]

No, it has come top on the first round and is neck and neck with the pro-immigration guy.
Why would that be the UK government's fault?
So your answer is to run away and lock yourself on a little island?
Well, not you personally .

I think you get the point I was making about the polarisation of Europe - wealthier countries seem to be going far right re immigration and poorer countries far left re austerity implementation by Brussels (part of the governing coalition in Portugal is now made up by the communist party who were voted in on an anti eu mandate).

The EU project is wrong and needs to be dismantled and taken back on trade and security cooperation levels - this notion that the UK can effect things at the heart of Europe is just fanciful as they clearly want to create a federal entity and at any cost by the sounds of things but it will bring social unrest whether it be due to migration, enforced austerity or a continued erosion of national sovereign powers which will definitely happen with closer fiscal union as that is inevitable or the euro continues to struggle.

I very much doubt that the UK's position on the fringes with Denmark will come into their thinking at all. In my opinion the UK by getting out just gets a head start on the others but it will incur short term disruption to the economy - it's just a question of whether you want death by a thousand cuts or a jolly good kicking for a few years.

 

[urmston]

Obama is pro-TTIP, pro-fracking and pro-capital punishment.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

I think you get the point I was making about the polarisation of Europe - wealthier countries seem to be going far right re immigration and poorer countries far left re austerity implementation by Brussels (part of the governing coalition in Portugal is now made up by the communist party who were voted in on an anti eu mandate).

The EU project is wrong and needs to be dismantled and taken back on trade and security cooperation levels - this notion that the UK can effect things at the heart of Europe is just fanciful as they clearly want to create a federal entity and at any cost by the sounds of things but it will bring social unrest whether it be due to migration, enforced austerity or a continued erosion of national sovereign powers which will definitely happen with closer fiscal union as that is inevitable or the euro continues to struggle.

I very much doubt that the UK's position on the fringes with Denmark will come into their thinking at all. In my opinion the UK by getting out just gets a head start on the others but it will incur short term disruption to the economy - it's just a question of whether you want death by a thousand cuts or a jolly good kicking for a few years.

I realise what you say about immigration but the polarisation seems to be pushed much much more than the benefits.
If you want to fight something, stand there and fight, i am told we are a super power and have the clout to do what we want. Should not be that difficult to beat some cheese eating surrender monkeys and a nation that spends the afternoon asleep. Or is that the slow recognition that the UK is not what is was and the brexit gives you the opportunity to do a runner back to isolation.

 

[Moriati]

Isn't the de-facto eu leader over there (again) today ?
Turkey's Erdogan Goes Full-Dictator: Arrests Dutch Journalist For Critical Tweet

What really happened is that having been appeased by German's Angela Merkel, who inexplicable gave green light for authorities to begin criminal proceedings against popular comic Jan Böhmermann for performing a satirical poem about Erdogan (in the process unleashing a political firestorm within Germany), Turkey's president now feels even more empowered and is testing just how far he can stretch his political domination over Europe,

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...tator-arrests-dutch-journalist-critical-tweet

 

[sir baconface]

or maybe they realise now, it is the UK government that has put houses out of reach for most kids and dont want them having further power to ruin this country.

Houses are expensive because of supply and demand. Population projections mean vastly increased demand and, in turn, rocketing prices.

Why? Because the supply side can't be met without serious political consequences. If this government goes too far in concreting over its heartland, it will commit political suicide. Like it or not, it was democratically elected and its supporters won't tolerate it. And if you think Labour could pull that off - assuming they get elected any time in the next ten years - think again.

In the absence of any other regulator, house prices will probably eventually rise to a level that deters unskilled immigrants and encourages them to look elsewhere.

 

[sir baconface]

Is Turkey the elephant in the room? Will the other EU states ever allow them in?

[Sorry, can't be more explicit without the damp fannies shouting "racist".]

 

[urmston]

Is Turkey the elephant in the room? Will the other EU states ever allow them in?

[Sorry, can't be more explicit without the damp fannies shouting "racist".]

Germany and Sweden will probably push for EU membership for Turkey once all the benefits of the recent mass immigrations to those countries kick in and become obvious to everyone.

If we stay in the EU we'll benefit too.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Been a strange old thread this one, you agreed with me yesterday, oh for the good old days when we could rip each other over stuff we are used to.

Anyhow, another point that gets missed it that with TTIP looming, is not now a good time for the UK to stand up and support/partner Europe by taking the lead and be proactive rather than reactive part in the EU and saying what we really think and how we can add to the common good. We have sulked, moaned, whinged and muttered about everything and anything European. I often wonder if the Germans do half the things they do because they know the UK will take their ball home if it doesn't suit. Three Lions? Three pussies more like. For all the jingo merchants, it is unlikely the grandfathers fought in the war for us to dick about worried about everything. Europe became free because everyone worked together with a common objective. Apparently we are a powerhouse but act like a shithouse.
Sit down, thrash agreements out, help bend acts to the good of all and become a more powerful and more unified entity rather than the weasling, in/out, oaky coaky, hotch potch job we do now or worse, sit in the cold shouting how good we are rather than getting into the mix and being in the front seat.

Blimey, yes it is a wierd thread. I agree with every word.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Houses are expensive because of supply and demand. Population projections mean vastly increased demand and, in turn, rocketing prices.

Why? Because the supply side can't be met without serious political consequences. If this government goes too far in concreting over its heartland, it will commit political suicide. Like it or not, it was democratically elected and its supporters won't tolerate it. And if you think Labour could pull that off - assuming they get elected any time in the next ten years - think again.

In the absence of any other regulator, house prices will probably eventually rise to a level that deters unskilled immigrants and encourages them to look elsewhere.

But arent these unskilled shirkers the ones getting free houses, cars and everything they want on a gold platter?
They not likely to be arsed hope much a house costs if they are given one, as the wise and the good on the right say.

It would be a good start to take stock of all the housing in the UK and just see what it is used for. Living in, storing, renting out, leaving vacant etc etc. then utilising what we have and going from there. We could get the Land registry to oversee this and as a government department, it would not take too much hassle, oh hang on, its being sold aint it.

 

[urmston]

Far right party in Austria wins first poll for election of the president.

The EU will probably collapse before long so our referendum is probably an irrelevance.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rst-round-presidential-election-norbert-hofer