The battle for 4th place

[Paladin]

Its become impossible to tell who really don't get it and who are on the wind up?

If you're meaning me, I am not on the wind up. I just wondered if the fourth automatic spot (albeit to the qualifying rounds) gets passed on to the fifth place if we qualify as CL champions.

 

[bellsouth]

Each association is allowed up to 5 CL entrants. However the 5th will only be allocated if the winner of CL and/or EL are already qualified (ie finished in top 4).
So, we finish in top 4 and win CL and Liverpool don't win EL = just the top 4 qualify as normal
we finish top 4, win the CL and Liverpool win EL = top 4 qualify + Liverpool
we finish top 4 don't win CL and Liverpool win EL = as above
we finish outside top 4 and win CL and Liverpool don't win EL = top 4 qualify + us
we finish outside top 4 and win CL and Liverpool win EL = top 3 qualify + us + Liverpool

Note the last one is the only way 4th can be eliminated from qualifying and as for your specific question 5th cannot ever qualify on its own, only if it happens to be also a team that has won either CL or EL (in which case it matters nor whether they are 5th, 6th or 20th)

And breathe

 

[Dribble]

It still amazes me that Leicester have gone the whole season more or less injury free.
Surely they are doing something different to us and other teams in their preparation/training?

They've got this huge walk in freezer thing that the players have to spend 5-10 minutes in after each game. Apparently it helps repair muscle tissue and rid the body of lactic acid. It sounded like a pile of shite at the beginning of the season, but now I reckon we'll be seeing a spike in heists on butchers shops all round the country!

If Leicester do win the title, they'll make a film about this and I reckon it could also be a game changer in terms of the 'traditional top four'. I reckon teams like WHU and Spurs enter the fray because that fear factor that the also rans used to have regarding the top 4 is rapidly evaporating and as more money flows into the game and the effects of FFP begin to bite the top clubs, I reckon it'll narrow the gap between all competing clubs in the top 8 as this season has already shown.

 

[mad zab]

Each association is allowed up to 5 CL entrants. However the 5th will only be allocated if the winner of CL and/or EL are already qualified (ie finished in top 4).
So, we finish in top 4 and win CL and Liverpool don't win EL = just the top 4 qualify as normal
we finish top 4, win the CL and Liverpool win EL = top 4 qualify + Liverpool
we finish top 4 don't win CL and Liverpool win EL = as above
we finish outside top 4 and win CL and Liverpool don't win EL = top 4 qualify + us
we finish outside top 4 and win CL and Liverpool win EL = top 3 qualify + us + Liverpool

Note the last one is the only way 4th can be eliminated from qualifying and as for your specific question 5th cannot ever qualify on its own, only if it happens to be also a team that has won either CL or EL (in which case it matters nor whether they are 5th, 6th or 20th)

And breathe

I am very sure that if we finish outside the top 4 and win the CL we replace the 4th team. The extra place is only gained if one of our teams win the EL.

 

[daveyboybluemoon]

We need at the minimum a 3rd place finish to have a place in next seasons Champions League. A 4th place finish means that you have to qualify for the Champions League. If Liverpool go on to win the Europa League then 4th place will only qualify for the Europa League next season

No.... England (& Spain & Germany) can have up to 5 teams in the Champions League. In that scenario above, the top 4 qualify (or go into the play off round) & Liverpool qualify. The ONLY way that 4th doesn't get into the Champs League is if we win the CL, Liverpool win the EL AND we don't finish in the top 4.

 

[daveyboybluemoon]

I am very sure that if we finish outside the top 4 and win the CL we replace the 4th team. The extra place is only gained if one of our teams win the EL.

No Bellsouth is spot on The ONLY way that 4th doesn't get into the Champs League is if we win the CL, Liverpool win the EL AND we don't finish in the top 4 (In which case it will probably be United missing out which would be brilliant)

 

[mad zab]

No Bellsouth is spot on The ONLY way that 4th doesn't get into the Champs League is if we win the CL, Liverpool win the EL AND we don't finish in the top 4 (In which case it will probably be United missing out which would be brilliant)

This is the line I highlighted

we finish outside top 4 and win CL and Liverpool don't win EL = top 4 qualify + us

If Liverpool don't win the EL we can only have four teams that qualify for the CL. The extra place is for the Europa League Winners.

If we finish out the top 4 and win the CL, then we will take the 4th spot ahead of the 4th placed team.

 

[Tam]

I am very sure that if we finish outside the top 4 and win the CL we replace the 4th team. The extra place is only gained if one of our teams win the EL.

That's what used to happen, Spurs lost out that way. But eufa changed the rules so a maximum of 5 teams from any one country can qualify.

 

[Chi-town blues]

Juicing

Lab juicing ?

 

[marco]

There two other games Norwich and Villa both at home lol.

wel'l get a result at Swansea,they were gash at Leicester, Southampton is the tricky one and there game with Norwich will be no walk in the park as if Norwich don't get anything they will most certainly be on there way down

 

[mad zab]

That's what used to happen, Spurs lost out that way. But eufa changed the rules so a maximum of 5 teams from any one country can qualify.

Yes but one of those positions is if a team from your country wins the Europa League. With Sevilla winning it last season Spain had 5 teams in the UCL this season. I don't see anywhere where it says the top 4 qualify if we finish out of it and win the CL.

 

[cibaman]

wel'l get a result at Swansea,they were gash at Leicester, Southampton is the tricky one and there game with Norwich will be no walk in the park as if Norwich don't get anything they will most certainly be on there way down

Swansea will give us a game on their ground. Its one thing "being on the beach" for an away match, different at home.

 

[Slashman X]

Yes but one of those positions is if a team from your country wins the Europa League.

Or if a team from your country wins the CL and doesn't qualify through the league. Spain had Top 4 + Sevilla last season because Barcelona won the CL and already qualified through the league, otherwise it would've been Top 3 + Barca (CL Winners) + Sevilla (EL winners)

 

[mad zab]

Or if a team from your country wins the CL and doesn't qualify through the league. Spain had Top 4 + Sevilla last season because Barcelona won the CL and already qualified through the league

No they had 5 because Sevilla won the Europa League. I haven't read anything to say if City fall out of the top 4 and win the CL that the top 4 in the League will go through. My understanding is that if this was to happen we would replace the 4th place team in the league. The 5th place will come if Liverpool win the Europa League.

I will hold my hands up if I am wrong. Although it won't matter as we will finish in the top 4

 

[Tom_mcfc]

Swansea will give us a game on their ground. Its one thing "being on the beach" for an away match, different at home.

You must of missed Stoke against Spurs then!

 

[Slashman X]

I haven't read anything to say if City fall out of the top 4 and win the CL that the top 4 in the League will go through. My understanding is that if this was to happen we would replace the 4th place team in the league. The 5th place will come if Liverpool win the Europa League.

I will hold my hands up if I am wrong. Although it won't matter as we will finish in the top 4

"The winners of the 2015–16 UEFA Champions League and 2015–16 UEFA Europa League are each given an additional entry if they do not qualify for the 2016–17 UEFA Champions League through their domestic league. Because a maximum of five teams from one association can enter the Champions League, if both the Champions League title holders and the Europa League title holders are from the same top three ranked association and finish outside the top four of their domestic league, the fourth-placed team of their association will be moved to the Europa League."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016–17_UEFA_Champions_League

Only if both the CL and EL winners finish outside the top 4 does the 4th place team lose their place. If City win the CL and finish outside top4 then it's top 4 + City.

 

[Inter Me Nan]

You must of missed Stoke against Spurs then!

Or Chelsea v's us.

 

[schfc6]

They've got this huge walk in freezer thing that the players have to spend 5-10 minutes in after each game. Apparently it helps repair muscle tissue and rid the body of lactic acid. It sounded like a pile of shite at the beginning of the season, but now I reckon we'll be seeing a spike in heists on butchers shops all round the country!

If Leicester do win the title, they'll make a film about this and I reckon it could also be a game changer in terms of the 'traditional top four'. I reckon teams like WHU and Spurs enter the fray because that fear factor that the also rans used to have regarding the top 4 is rapidly evaporating and as more money flows into the game and the effects of FFP begin to bite the top clubs, I reckon it'll narrow the gap between all competing clubs in the top 8 as this season has already shown.

Have you heard what Bilic had to say on the matter? He is in full agreement with you.

He's basically saying that the top clubs can only have so many top players and now due to the money in the game the traditional smaller clubs are closing the gap.
His theory is that top clubs already have great players, so despite having more money can only really improve so much. Whereas the mid table sides now have the opportunity to improve greatly. I guess his point, it's easier to improve on James Tompkins than Vincent Kompany.

There is now also the situation where in the past. West Brom would have had to sell Berahino to Spurs, Spurs would have had to sell to bring him in.
Now West Brom don't need to sell and can also add Rondon. In the past they'd have needed to raise funds by selling their players to reinvest. Now teams can keep their best players and invest in better.
In the past Spurs would have had to sell to strengthen. Now they can keep all their best players and still add top quality.
Back to Bilic's point, how do Spurs improve on Kane? Or their back 4? Not easy. They can improve their squad but will struggle to improve their best xi. West Ham, Everton, Southampton et al will keep their best and add. Thus closing the gap.

So every PL team will have top quality all over. This will as you say, close the gap.

The money should ensure that the Prem will continue to throw up surprises. Remain competitive. When Villa who are 20th have players on £70k a week and spent £50+ million in the summer are compared to the likes of Lavante or Verona or or Newcastle to Granada or Frosione who have spent and pay buttons it's obvious to see why the strugglers can compete with anyone.
Yesterday I was actually surprised that Sunderland didn't beat Arsenal.

 

[mad zab]

"The winners of the 2015–16 UEFA Champions League and 2015–16 UEFA Europa League are each given an additional entry if they do not qualify for the 2016–17 UEFA Champions League through their domestic league. Because a maximum of five teams from one association can enter the Champions League, if both the Champions League title holders and the Europa League title holders are from the same top three ranked association and finish outside the top four of their domestic league, the fourth-placed team of their association will be moved to the Europa League."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016–17_UEFA_Champions_League

Only if both the CL and EL winners finish outside the top 4 does the 4th place team lose their place. If City win the CL and finish outside top4 then it's top 4 + City.

I hold my hands up. I understood the additional entry was only for the Europa league.

 

[SWP's back]

We need at the minimum a 3rd place finish to have a place in next seasons Champions League. A 4th place finish means that you have to qualify for the Champions League. If Liverpool go on to win the Europa League then 4th place will only qualify for the Europa League next season

Ah. Just seen this. Thanks.