EU referendum

[EalingBlue2]

I'm not happy with the current issues surrounding life in Greater Manchester, that have arisen in the past 4 decades since we've been part of the EU. The lack of investment into our city is scandalous and it annoys me that people think we can continue plodding along in the EU as they hand us Briton's living outside the capital the short straw.

I'm all for my country having full control over itself and I'm all for Westminster delegating power to an elected mayor of my City who'll work with our best interests at heart.

The more layers of government you add, the more difficult that becomes. So I'm voting out.

I hope that's sarcastic FFS Do you not remember Manchester in the late 70's and early 80's the state of town, Hulme etc Manchester has improved more in the last 40 years than just about any city in the UK and has thrived and become a well known global city. Manchester has had investment in the last 40 years that has turned around a century of decline. Though there are still some grindingly poor suburbs the city itself has come on a mile culturally, financially, sportingly and aesthetically - genuinely ????????????

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

Do you really have to shout? Do you think people aren't listening to you? I've read everything you've said to date with the exception of the above article, it's obviously not with taking any notice of if you feel you have to shout to be heard.

BigJoe....couldnt change the size of the font and thats how it copied and pasted...sorry! You had me all wrong mate.....

 

[Metal Biker]

http://www.drsarah.org.uk/sarah's-blog/both-sides-should-stop-treating-the-public-as/1748

From reading that she never really believed in leavign the EU, she's like Cameron; she supports a reformed EU.

She states "she never imagined leaving the EU", thus showing she's always supported it in one way or another, most leavers have no such love loss.

Also that article does not present any misgivings she's had about the EU, just about both campaigns. She gives no argument as to why we should leave the EU or why she feels Britain would prosper outside it. All she does is criticise the Leave campaign whilst also criticising the Remain campaigns project fear.

Here http://www.drsarah.org.uk/issues/the-eu she outlines the debate itself, giving people information to make up their own minds rather than trying to convince them that leaving is the better option. She does not strike me as someone who supported the Leave campaign at all. She mentions that "We tend to think of the EU as benign and remote but what if a federal and ever more centralising Europe moves against our national interest? We will be powerless to effect meaningful change just as we are already unable to vote its leaders from power. The situation in Austria should act as a wake up call to those who feel that the direction of the EU could not change. My fundamental concern is that in our own mature democracy we must retain the ability to remove from power those who make the decisions which govern our lives."

This is a very important and influencing decision on the EU and one I happen to agree with; the direction of the EU and the lack of democratic process within the EU coupled with Britain's failure to influence or change things becoming apparent. Yet she's willing to ignore this and join a side asking to remain a part of this organisation on the basis that the Leave campaign hasn't presented the truth about the £350m (as in not mentioning we do get some of it back albeit only £120-150m of it). Even in her interview she stated that "right from the start I told them I would not hand out their leaflets".

Sarah Wollaston does not seem to me to be a strong enough believer in leaving the EU, and in my view she's also guilty of conning people by having them think she supported a campaign when she didn't.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

Doesnt matter if you agree or not...from everything I've read, this woman is a GP and knows what she is talking about...and she has shown many times she willing to speak out and Protest against Cameron/Government when she doesnt believe something is right.....So by doing this now, its clear she no longer believes leaving is right for the country....This is a big loss for the "leave" campaigners in my opinion and just shows the lies and false hope they are being sold...I'm waiting for MP's of the "outs" to discredit Sarah Wollaston's claims but this is normal as no one likes to be told they wrong....

EU referendum: MP Sarah Wollaston swaps sides over 'untrue' Leave claims

Dr Wollaston, chairman of the health select committee, said Vote Leave's claim that Brexit would free up £350m a week for the NHS "simply isn't true".

Leave campaigners defend the £350m figure, saying it is the UK's gross contribution and any money received back is at EU officials' discretion.
But the Totnes MP, who is a GP, said: "For someone like me who has long campaigned for open and honest data in public life I could not have set foot on a battle bus that has at the heart of its campaign a figure that I know to be untrue.

"If you're in a position where you can't hand out a Vote Leave leaflet, you can't be campaigning for that organisation."

Dr Wollaston said she thought there would be a "Brexit penalty" on the NHS because leaving the EU would hit Britain's economy.

"The consensus now is there would be a huge economic shock if we voted to leave," she said. "Undoubtedly, the thing that's most going to influence the financial health of the NHS is the background economy. So I think there would be a Brexit penalty."

Louder please we can't hear you down here. In summary if I have understood you are saying she is a media whore?

 

[Metal Biker]

"Dr Wollaston defended her decision to change camps saying "nobody wants politicians who make the wrong decision" and it would be "far worse" not to change her mind"


I believe what is more damaging for the "leaves" is the fact that the chairman of the health committee has history of speaking out and protesting against Cameron/Government on issues...she doesnt do anything to gain favours.....the Longer this campaign was gone on, she has just become more uncomfortable with the lies and false hope the leavers are selling.....I give her credit for standing up for what she believes and knowing her position and the principles she has.....I think we should listen.....on a side note she also felt both sides are damaging this process....so she not blind to the move she has made....

Why should anyone listen to an MP that clearly didn't fully support the notion of leaving the EU? SHould Gideon be automatically respected on his economic views on leaving the EU just because he's the Chancellor? IF so I expect dozens of Labour voters to lay off the man in following budgets saying "ah well, he was right about the EU referendum after all, and I supported him on that..."

Or, a more intelligent notion would be to look at the character of an MP who, despite claiming to support an opinion of leave, has chosen to go from one side to the other on the notion that one side of the campaign was telling lies....to ANOTHER campaign as equally guilty of misleading the public in their campaign and telling lies. Sorry, doesn't wash with me at all.

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

Louder please we can't hear you down here. In summary if I have understood you are saying she is a media whore?

As I've just mentioned to BigJoe.......I copied and pasted the comments......and cant find an option to reduce front size on bluemoon.....I felt it was worth adding to the thread so didnt want to not post it......come on guys, if you honest.....some just close their minds becuase it supports staying anyway.......but thats a side issue...I genuinely didnt know how to change the font size or I would have....can we now move on!....If someone can tell me where the option is, that would be a big help......maybe then you guys wont misunderstand me as shouting!; ) thank you

 

[sir baconface]

As the EU expands to include more of the smaller economic powers, the migration pull to the UK can only grow.

Unless our own economy deteriorates in relative terms in the meantime.

 

[George Hannah]

From reading that she never really believed in leavign the EU, she's like Cameron; she supports a reformed EU.

She states "she never imagined leaving the EU", thus showing she's always supported it in one way or another, most leavers have no such love loss.

Also that article does not present any misgivings she's had about the EU, just about both campaigns. She gives no argument as to why we should leave the EU or why she feels Britain would prosper outside it. All she does is criticise the Leave campaign whilst also criticising the Remain campaigns project fear.

Here http://www.drsarah.org.uk/issues/the-eu she outlines the debate itself, giving people information to make up their own minds rather than trying to convince them that leaving is the better option. She does not strike me as someone who supported the Leave campaign at all. She mentions that "We tend to think of the EU as benign and remote but what if a federal and ever more centralising Europe moves against our national interest? We will be powerless to effect meaningful change just as we are already unable to vote its leaders from power. The situation in Austria should act as a wake up call to those who feel that the direction of the EU could not change. My fundamental concern is that in our own mature democracy we must retain the ability to remove from power those who make the decisions which govern our lives."

This is a very important and influencing decision on the EU and one I happen to agree with; the direction of the EU and the lack of democratic process within the EU coupled with Britain's failure to influence or change things becoming apparent. Yet she's willing to ignore this and join a side asking to remain a part of this organisation on the basis that the Leave campaign hasn't presented the truth about the £350m (as in not mentioning we do get some of it back albeit only £120-150m of it). Even in her interview she stated that "right from the start I told them I would not hand out their leaflets".

Sarah Wollaston does not seem to me to be a strong enough believer in leaving the EU, and in my view she's also guilty of conning people by having them think she supported a campaign when she didn't.

definitely a plant, watch out for the next scheduled 'remain convert' sleeper

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

Why should anyone listen to an MP that clearly didn't fully support the notion of leaving the EU? SHould Gideon be automatically respected on his economic views on leaving the EU? IF so I expect dozens of Labour voters to lay off the man in following budgets saying "ah well, he was right about the EU referendum after all..."

Or, a more intelligent notion would be to look at the character of an MP who, despite claiming to support an opinion of leave, has chosen to go from one side to the other on the notion that one side of the campaign was telling lies....to ANOTHER campaign as equally guilty of misleading the public in their campaign and telling lies. Sorry, doesn't wash with me at all.

I respect someone more if they admit they were wrong and make the right decision before its too late.....I wouldnt knock anyone for forming an opinion but during a process find out that those original ideas were a mistake......she prefers to face a hard time from the "outs" if it means she making the right decision....see no harm in that!

 

[Tim of the Oak]

From reading that she never really believed in leavign the EU, she's like Cameron; she supports a reformed EU.

She states "she never imagined leaving the EU", thus showing she's always supported it in one way or another, most leavers have no such love loss.

Also that article does not present any misgivings she's had about the EU, just about both campaigns. She gives no argument as to why we should leave the EU or why she feels Britain would prosper outside it. All she does is criticise the Leave campaign whilst also criticising the Remain campaigns project fear.

Here http://www.drsarah.org.uk/issues/the-eu she outlines the debate itself, giving people information to make up their own minds rather than trying to convince them that leaving is the better option. She does not strike me as someone who supported the Leave campaign at all. She mentions that "We tend to think of the EU as benign and remote but what if a federal and ever more centralising Europe moves against our national interest? We will be powerless to effect meaningful change just as we are already unable to vote its leaders from power. The situation in Austria should act as a wake up call to those who feel that the direction of the EU could not change. My fundamental concern is that in our own mature democracy we must retain the ability to remove from power those who make the decisions which govern our lives."

This is a very important and influencing decision on the EU and one I happen to agree with; the direction of the EU and the lack of democratic process within the EU coupled with Britain's failure to influence or change things becoming apparent. Yet she's willing to ignore this and join a side asking to remain a part of this organisation on the basis that the Leave campaign hasn't presented the truth about the £350m (as in not mentioning we do get some of it back albeit only £120-150m of it). Even in her interview she stated that "right from the start I told them I would not hand out their leaflets".

Sarah Wollaston does not seem to me to be a strong enough believer in leaving the EU, and in my view she's also guilty of conning people by having them think she supported a campaign when she didn't.

Another conspiracy theory. Isn't enough for you that somebody has changed their mind when they realised they've been lied to.

There is virtually no saving from leaving the EU if you factor in both our net cost of membership and the rate per person Noway pays to enter the single market (despite accepting free movement of people).

Then you can start considering all the costs associated with visa and points entry arrangement for the ten percent of NHS staff who are from the rest of the EU. Then factor in the risks to the wider economy that is the single biggest factor affecting the sustainability of the NHS.

Maybe Woollaston just gave more consideration to the issues at hand. Many people who work in our Health Services love working for the NHS and doing what's best for patients. When Sarah examined her conscience this (along with the added costs for the NHS of leaving the EU) probably carried more weight than cloudy notions of sovereignty or project Brexit / increase immigration from outside the EU!

 

[George Hannah]

I respect someone more if they admit they were wrong and make the right decision before its too late.....I wouldnt knock anyone for forming an opinion but during a process find out that those original ideas were a mistake......she prefers to face a hard time from the "outs" if it means she making the right decision....see no harm in that!

interesting the big BBC led with her staged defection rather than the JCB Chairman supporting the outers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36485985

 

[Metal Biker]

I respect someone more if they admit they were wrong and make the right decision before its too late.....I wouldnt knock anyone for forming an opinion but during a process find out that those original ideas were a mistake......she prefers to face a hard time from the "outs" if it means she making the right decision....see no harm in that!

But she hasn't admitted she was wrong. She's stated the leave campaign has been telling the public lies about leaving the EU without giving the public her OWN views on why she supported leaving in the first place. After doing google searches on her name to try and find out what her views WERE on leaving the EU, do you know what I found?

Nothing. She has no opinions on whether Britain should leave the EU. The closest I could come was how she fears what the EU will become in thr future, how Britain will not be able to change the EU's directives yet will become more powerful and have more influence over us. If that was her reasonings to join a campaign petitioning for us to leave the European Union, it wasn't strong enought to begin with, so I don't class her as an 'outer' at all. She needed to be able to inform the public on why, on every conceivable topic, the EU is bad for Britain and there is no evidence online of her ever having done that.

The £350m message has been around for months, and isn't wholly inaccurate, it just doesn't tell people the whole story, but when trying to think of "catchy slogans", saying "We give the EU £350m a week, which after rebates we receive between £120m-150m, after which we're then told how to spend it." then they'd need a much longer bus.

She's not making the 'right decision', that's just your opinion. She's making a decision, one which in my eyes is rather hypocritical if her reasoning is that she cannot abide by the lies of the Leave campaign, but wholly endorses the lies of the In campaign.

 

[Monkfish]

haha this is genius, she didn't believe 'strongly' enough. The outers should have some kind of stripes to determine rank

By that token Boris does not believe strongly in leaving the EU, and neither does anyone who has yet to decide. So here is the message, if you have not made up your mind yet you are not a true outer - vote remain

 

[Mancini Manus Domini]

If Borris Johnson, Nigel Farage and the likes were involved in British Politics in the 1930's do you believe they would be appeasing Hitler or opposing him?

 

[Monkfish]

interesting the big BBC led with her staged defection rather than the JCB Chairman supporting the outers.

JCB chairman wanting leave isn't news at all is it, he has been advocating that for many years - why would that be a news story today? Why is that interesting?

 

[Metal Biker]

haha this is genius, she didn't believe 'strongly' enough. The outers should have some kind of stripes to determine rank

By that token Boris does not believe strongly in leaving the EU, and neither does anyone who has yet to decide. So here is the message, if you have not made up your mind yet you are not a true outer - vote remain

Someone who has positive and negative views on a certain topic is called an 'undecided', and to me that's what she is and always has been.

You can have an open debate without being childish, can't you?

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

But she hasn't admitted she was wrong. She's stated the leave campaign has been telling the public lies about leaving the EU without giving the public her OWN views on why she supported leaving in the first place. After doing google searches on her name to try and find out what her views WERE on leaving the EU, do you know what I found?

Nothing. She has no opinions on whether Britain should leave the EU. The closest I could come was how she fears what the EU will become in thr future, how Britain will not be able to change the EU's directives yet will become more powerful and have more influence over us. If that was her reasonings to join a campaign petitioning for us to leave the European Union, it was a weak view to begin with, so I don't class her as an 'outer' at all. The £350m message has been around for months, and isn't wholly inaccurate, it just doesn't tell people the whole story, but when trying to think of "catchy slogans", saying "We give the EU £350m a week, which after rebates we receive between £120m-150m, after which we're then told how to spend it." then they'd need a much longer bus.

She's not making the 'right decision', that's just your opinion. She's making a decision, one which in my eyes is rather hypocritical if her reasoning is that she cannot abide by the lies of the Leave campaign, but wholly endorses the lies of the In campaign.

She now supports "staying".....actions speak louder than words....by swapping she is saying she made a mistake...

"Dr Wollaston defended her decision to change camps saying "nobody wants politicians who make the wrong decision" and it would be "far worse" not to change her mind"

 

[EalingBlue2]

definitely a plant, watch out for the next scheduled 'remain convert' sleeper

Is there no end to brexit paranoia?

Every public body, national, leader, think tank , politician who says in is lying, anyone who changes is a plant. It's like David icke has taken over the minds of half the country.

 

[Monkfish]

If Borris Johnson, Nigel Farage and the likes were involved in British Politics in the 1930's do you believe they would be appeasing Hitler or opposing him?

Opportunist Boris would have seen the way things were looking and be in the Third Reich tbh. Farridge on the other hand would have shot his German wife

 

[Monkfish]

Someone who has positive and negative views on a certain topic is called an 'undecided', and to me that's what she is and always has been.

You can have an open debate without being childish, can't you?

Your opinions are laughable, but I'm banned from laughing?

No mention of Boz? Avoiding that point?