Marc-Andre ter Stegen

[domalino]

I have heard a great deal about how good he is with the ball at his feet........but is he as good as Joe as a keeper ?

To be honest I'm not sure it matters that much.

The way to think about it in my opinion is like this - ter Stegen in goal would allow us to push the defence even further forward. That compresses the pitch and makes our pressing more effective, which means snuffing out a lot of attacks before they develop. It also means the opposition forwards are further from the goal and it means we'll be much better at holding onto possession and keeping the ball is the best form of defence. Compressing the pitch more also means shorter distances for our players to run when they press, which means they can maintain a higher intensity for longer.

So even if his being a slightly worse shot stopper costs us a goal or 2 that Joe would have saved, the tactical changes it would allow us to make would likely save many more.

On top of that, you've got his contribution to the attack. If we had him in between the sticks, he would be a genuine passing option when playing it out from the back which gives you a man overlap somewhere and that free player will create goals when the ball is worked to him.

The "good with his feet" thing really cannot be overstated in terms of importance.

 

[Danny_Johnson4]

Watching the pre season games I just cant fathom how on earth we are going to move forward with the way Pep wants to play without a new 'expert footballing' goalkeeper
I know wasnt Hart in net, with it being Willy and Angus Gunn, but Hart isnt miles ahead of Willy with the ball at his feet anyway

I was cringing watching Willy try to play out against Bayern and Dortmund (especially dortmund), and it makes me wonder if we planned such fixtures to see if we could handle the kind of 'press' those sides put on you in your own defensive third,
We have coped 'OK' with it all up to now with a makeshift squad, but it was clear to see how angry Pep was getting when Willy and Angus missplaced switches to the full back which are only 30 yard clips..

He is intent on playing this way and I cant help but feel he knows the current crop we have arent up to it. Lets see how Joe does on sunday though as after all he hasnt had his chance yet..

 

[domalino]

How often will he have the ball at his feet?
I would like to think that our midfield will be the ones with the ball at their feet for the majority of the game.

That's not how it works though, the keeper is going to be involved in building out from the back.

To compare and contrast.

Succesful passes per game -

MatS - 17.4

Neuer - 20.18

Hart - 4.75

So even in teams with incredible midfields like Barcelona and Bayern, the way they play (the way Pep wants us to play) means they are making 4-5x as many passes as Joe.

 

[BlueRockape]

To be honest I'm not sure it matters that much.

The way to think about it in my opinion is like this - ter Stegen in goal would allow us to push the defence even further forward. That compresses the pitch and makes our pressing more effective, which means snuffing out a lot of attacks before they develop. It also means the opposition forwards are further from the goal and it means we'll be much better at holding onto possession and keeping the ball is the best form of defence. Compressing the pitch more also means shorter distances for our players to run when they press, which means they can maintain a higher intensity for longer.

So even if his being a slightly worse shot stopper costs us a goal or 2 that Joe would have saved, the tactical changes it would allow us to make would likely save many more.

On top of that, you've got his contribution to the attack. If we had him in between the sticks, he would be a genuine passing option when playing it out from the back which gives you a man overlap somewhere and that free player will create goals when the ball is worked to him.

The "good with his feet" thing really cannot be overstated in terms of importance.

Great reply.
If Joe can be given or taught to play the ball with confidence we could have the best of both worlds without buying another player. It must be easier to teach a few ball skills than GK skills

 

[Zin 'messiah' Zimmer]

I know wasnt Hart in net, with it being Willy and Angus Gunn, but Hart isnt miles ahead of Willy with the ball at his feet anyway

You're right, joe isn't, he's actually the worse of the two, distribution wise

 

[Phil1]

Not sure how you worked that one out.

Random is a massive Hart fan..

 

[Ric]

You're right, joe isn't, he's actually the worse of the two, distribution wise

Not sure about that. Caballero's distribution was absolutely shambolic against Dortmund.

 

[kaz7]

That's not how it works though, the keeper is going to be involved in building out from the back.

To compare and contrast.

Succesful passes per game -

MatS - 17.4

Neuer - 20.18

Hart - 4.75

So even in teams with incredible midfields like Barcelona and Bayern, the way they play (the way Pep wants us to play) means they are making 4-5x as many passes as Joe.

We are not a team that play out of the back so no-one offers themselves for joe to kick too

 

[Paul_Powers_Tash]

To be honest I'm not sure it matters that much.

The way to think about it in my opinion is like this - ter Stegen in goal would allow us to push the defence even further forward. That compresses the pitch and makes our pressing more effective, which means snuffing out a lot of attacks before they develop. It also means the opposition forwards are further from the goal and it means we'll be much better at holding onto possession and keeping the ball is the best form of defence. Compressing the pitch more also means shorter distances for our players to run when they press, which means they can maintain a higher intensity for longer.

So even if his being a slightly worse shot stopper costs us a goal or 2 that Joe would have saved, the tactical changes it would allow us to make would likely save many more.

On top of that, you've got his contribution to the attack. If we had him in between the sticks, he would be a genuine passing option when playing it out from the back which gives you a man overlap somewhere and that free player will create goals when the ball is worked to him.

The "good with his feet" thing really cannot be overstated in terms of importance.

Completely agree with this. Surely a goalkeeper who is good with the ball at his feet is our number 1 priority (no pun intended). Anyone who has watched Joe over the years will already know that there is no way Joe can do what Pep's system requires.

 

[pudge]

We are not a team that play out of the back so no-one offers themselves for joe to kick too

Those in the first 5 rows of stands offer themselves plenty.

 

[Zin 'messiah' Zimmer]

Not sure about that. Caballero's distribution was absolutely shambolic against Dortmund.

Which is consuming me with dread regarding Joe... Historically, willy has been regarded an able 'footballer', he's also in the twilight of his career... I agree with domalino on this, I've been banging the drum since we heard about Pep coming in.... Personally I don't think he'll be here in 12 months because I can't see him improving to the standard required!!

 

[domalino]

We are not a team that play out of the back so no-one offers themselves for joe to kick too

Yes, but why aren't we a team that plays out from the back? Pellegrini's Villareal and Malaga did.

Is it because successive managers know Hart can't do it?

I would like nothing more than for Hart to stay and play the way Pep wants, and I'd be gutted if we went into the season with no English players as nailed on starters too.

But it's more important that we get a keeper who does what Pep needs him to do, because otherwise we won't be successful at it.

 

[Phil1]

We are not a team that play out of the back so no-one offers themselves for joe to kick too

We will be. That excuse about nobody showing doesn't really wash either, I've seen it used as a defence of his distribution on here a few times and whilst it may be true on the odd occasion, the majority of the time it's down to Joe not being quick enough or confident enough to play it.

 

[teddykgb]

Not sure about that. Caballero's distribution was absolutely shambolic against Dortmund.

He was awful. And lost confidence and started spraying everything long. Pep must have been beside himself

 

[Edwin Edwin]

Being great on the ball is not sth that can be taught into a GK imo..You eithet have it or not.That explanation up there sums up why Pep's looking for a new GK..If MATS isn't available then Rui Patricio is a good alternative option..Bravo is good too.

 

[Zin 'messiah' Zimmer]

We will be. That excuse about nobody showing doesn't really wash either, I've seen it used as a defence of his distribution on here a few times and whilst it may be true on the odd occasion, the majority of the time it's down to Joe not being quick enough or confident enough to play it.

Notably the Derby last year where he got himself injured.... He's like a rabbit in the headlights, however, I'm also of the notion that Pep won't apply his whole blueprint in 12 months, he will evolve it somewhat to meet the needs at the time!!

 

[kaz7]

Yes, but why aren't we a team that plays out from the back? Pellegrini's Villareal and Malaga did.

Is it because successive managers know Hart can't do it?

I would like nothing more than for Hart to stay and play the way Pep wants, and I'd be gutted if we went into the season with no English players as nailed on starters too.

But it's more important that we get a keeper who does what Pep needs him to do, because otherwise we won't be successful at it.

Joe hasn't kicked a ball yet so it remains to be seen if he can do it well enough for pep,i think 2 weeks training before he decides,i think joe will try his best to get it right,they will be mistakes ahead for all the players whilst they learn and we have to be patient

 

[daztrueblue91]

Joe's ability with the ball at his feet is hugely under rated on here.

There have been many a time where his quick thinking and accurate passing/throwing has set us up for a counter attack.

Also, even when we do tend to lose possession after a goal kick or from the keeper, it tends to be because we are piss poor at winning the second ball. At least 8 times out of 10 Joe will pick out the full back from a kick.

Then we have the issue of piss poor movement. The only outlet he ever has from the long ball is either full backs. No other player can win the ball aerially and the general work rate and movement under Pellegrini's last two seasons has been piss poor. In essence, we are giving Joe zero options other than to hit in long to small players.

Let's see how he copes in a side who will give him numerous options before writing him off. You could have put Neuer, De Gea or Ter Stegen in our side last season and their stats wouldn't have been much superior to Hart's.

 

[Zin 'messiah' Zimmer]

Joe hasn't kicked a ball yet so it remains to be seen if he can do it well enough for pep,i think 2 weeks training before he decides,i think joe will try his best to get it right,they will be mistakes ahead for all the players whilst they learn and we have to be patient

Hart has Kicked the proverbial city ball for going on 8 years now, if you can't see his distribution is severely lacking in that time then it's not a discussion worth having... Nobody will fault joes effort, however, his flaws are there for all to see!!!

 

[Phil1]

Notably the Derby last year where he got himself injured.... He's like a rabbit in the headlights, however, I'm also of the notion that Pep won't apply his whole blueprint in 12 months, he will evolve it somewhat to meet the needs at the time!!

I agree, its up to Joe to prove his worth just like everybody else in the squad.
I see him making a move to Arsenal by the start of the 2017/2018 season.