Blimey, just goes to show how differently we can all see the same thing. I thought it was decent enough in patches and obviously we were the better team by far but we just didn't make anywhere near enough chances from open play for me to be thinking it was absolutely incredible or anything. Just a good performance where we should have won by a couple of goals against an ok team that will probably finish mid-table.Certainly in patches.
Then we're in complete disagreement.
Just let me know where you'd put KDB in this list of potential pressers (when motivated) for a full game:
Gundugan
Nolito
Kun
Sterling
KDB
KDB is last. Arguably Sterling isn't great either - but Sterling never tires.
KDB was not awful.
You've failed to list where KDB should be.Completely wrong again, Sterling is brilliant at it, and has won the ball back through pressing more than any other player.
I'm starting to think this is some sort of joke? You must be wumming.
I know what you're getting at and to some extent I wouldn't disagree but stupid mistakes that lead to losing a match comprehensively and poor decision making/bad finishing at the other end are pretty fundamental parts of a performance being good or not IMO. I think it showed that we will absolutely be competitive with the top teams in Europe in the not too distant future but at the same time we got too many crucial things wrong for me to say it was a genuinely good performance. I think Sevilla away is probably our best performance in the Champions League to date but the potential we are showing at the moment is huge and really encouraging.
The thing I took away from both Sevilla away last year and the match on Wednesday is that I reckon Raheem could be one of the best players in Europe in the next couple of years. It still annoys me that he got so few minutes in Madrid.Taking into account that Sevilla are Sevilla & Barca are Barca, I don't think there is any comparison tbh. We would have most likely got away with the stupid mistakes v Sevilla & not been a goal down in the first place.
I think City's performance 1st half was one of the best ever by an English team in Europe.
I was also very impressed. Played Barca straight up - shadow pressing - and often winning the ball back. I thought that it was 50-50. Unfortunate set of circumstances lead to Messi's goal.I think City's performance 1st half was one of the best ever by an English team in Europe.
The thing I took away from both Sevilla away last year and the match on Wednesday is that I reckon Raheem could be one of the best players in Europe in the next couple of years. It still annoys me that he got so few minutes in Madrid.
I was also very impressed. Played Barca straight up - shadow pressing - and often winning the ball back. I thought that it was 50-50. Unfortunate set of circumstances lead to Messi's goal.
Indeed, can't wait for us to get Jesus in. I also can't wait for us to be turning down £100 million plus bids for Sterling from Real just to completely piss on the chips of all those scouse ****s who thought they had ripped us off. Not that I'm bitter or anything.City will look a lot different again with Sterling, Sane & Gabriel Jesus in the reconing next season imo. One or two other youngsters as well I recon.
Serge has even more competition to come, in games like that.
Whilst It's correct to say we were 1-0 down and we were getting beat playing without Agüero, I think our performance in the opening 20 minutes was okay, or even better than okay. The problem came when Bravo observed Pep's philosophy a bit to keenly. At any level of football, when you've come that far out of your area the first priority should be to avoid danger and put your boot through it, if you could pick a pass then fine, but you should not fartarse around trying to play pretty football. This is a flaw in Pep's game plan when he brings it to the Prem. This had nothing whatsoever to do with Sergio being in the field, if he was or if he wasn't I strongly suspect the same outcome would have happened.What has that got to do with the post I replied too ?
Again another one of Peps top fans talks down to a poster who doesn't agree with them, we are not stupid, we do understand the tactics as to why he put Aguero on the bench, the point being we had nobody to finish the chances off that was created, so all in all it was a pretty stupid idea no ?
It wasted KDB and Aguero's talent and we then got stuffed 4-0, even when it was all working we were still getting beat 1-0, so not brilliant after all.
you talked about a manager picking players on merit, giving Yaya and Pellegrini as a reverse example of it, now your reply focuses on the tactical aspect of dropping our top scorer, that is fine but not what I was replying to originally is it ?
I asked you what Aguero had done wrong as your implied that our new tough manager picked players on merit.
Tbh I could give two stuffs what you think and it is increasingly like talking to lovesick teenagers, I like Pep well enough and think he will bring success to the team but some things can be questioned and dropping Aguero for whatever reason and leaving us toothless in attack was one such instance, his tactic could have created 50 chances but if our non strikers do not put them away and we lose or draw 0-0 then it is still pretty pointless to drop the best goal scorer at the club.
So you can take your condescending replies and shove them where the sun shines no longer.
You've failed to list where KDB should be.
Sterling is OK, but isn't as good as Kun, Nolito or Gundogan.
If you werent' such a complete asshole in your posts and simply stated your opinion clearly - whatever that might be - you might not get so much pushback. Food for thought. Not that this will have any impact on your brilliant posts - such as advocating a handball by our most irrepalceable player in a group stage.
Nice post simon23. And there's much in this that I agree with.i think we need to make a distinction between work rate, pressing and ability to win the ball back
there is no problem with he work rate of any of the players mentioned.......its just done in different fashions
For instance - Kun doesn't press as much but his work rate in the channels off the ball and his attempts to win the ball back when he loses possession are excellent. He physically puts a shift in getting kicked and battered every game....what he doesn't do is sprint at the opposition players when they have the ball and "press them." This maybe cause in his own head he feels he isn't a very good tackler when faced up with an opponent with the ball....his style of movement doesn't lend itself to this though his low centre of gravity and his strength through this does......
Compared to sterling who has similar attributes in that he has strength through low centre of gravity but maybe not so much physical muscle as Kun...however sterlings approach to a player when front on is much more balanced...whether due to confidence or his better balance in this movement i don't know but you can clearly see it. As far as chasing back after thee ball they are both pretty similar its just sterling probably does more of it due to his position on the pitch.
Silva is completely different to both of them - Ive mentioned this over the last few years. Silva's intelligence and reading of the game plus his very nimble footwork and connected to this his ability to manipulate the ball with even the smallest of touches enable him to nick the ball off opponents...he comes in from the blind side quite often and surprises opponents and "nicks it"...he does tackle at times but this he isn't great at and can often give away fouls (More usually however in areas that are not to important/threatening - i.e. higher up the pitch)...if you want to see what i mean about silva touch on the ball, look at how he got the first penalty against jagkelka vs everton.....he was against two defenders and they had actually won the ball for a brief second but silva with his deftness of touch (and possibly a little luck) won it back causing jagelka to trip him)
KDB spends a lot of energy roaming an running across the pitch putting pressure on the defenders of the opposition from the front...he also does a bit of what silva does in "nicking it and reacting very quickly to miss hit passes/getting interceptions and nicking to the toes off of opposition players.
Ferna and Ilky are both combative midfielders and are can win the ball back in all those ways ...they are more balanced and better equipped to do so than the likes of Sergio and the other players
Its all down to physical attributes which is one of the the things Pep keeps hinting at along with mental attributes .....I don't think Pep has any problem with the mentality of any of the players...he keeps saying how happy he is with there approach, openess to do what he wants etc....but he does keep mentioning the abilities of players and type of player.
And still your posts are unnecessarily argumentative and fail to address the question asked - where would you rate KDB as a defender for the full 90 under Pep's system?Pushback? Haha - you mean like yesterday when you spent a few posts lecturing me about how I couldn't read an article, only to realise you thought Bravo (a goalkeeper) gave away a penalty with his handball, and actually you were the one without a clue? I think I can live with your pushback.
Getting back to pressing and Aguero, the obvious thing is that your comment goes completely against Guardiola's comments. He has praised De Bruyne's work and ability without the ball, and he's said several times he wants more from Aguero in that area and he has to improve it.
That alone should tell you that you're wrong to put Aguero above De Bruyne in your little list.
Whilst It's correct to say we were 1-0 down and we were getting beat playing without Agüero, I think our performance in the opening 20 minutes was okay, or even better than okay. The problem came when Bravo observed Pep's philosophy a bit to keenly. At any level of football, when you've come that far out of your area the first priority should be to avoid danger and put your boot through it, if you could pick a pass then fine, but you should not fartarse around trying to play pretty football. This is a flaw in Pep's game plan when he brings it to the Prem. This had nothing whatsoever to do with Sergio being in the field, if he was or if he wasn't I strongly suspect the same outcome would have happened.
And still you're posts are unnecessarily argumentative and fail to address the question asked - where would you rate KDB as a defender for the full 90 under Pep's system?
I don't rate KDB highly at all - atm - as he tires and in the second half, fails tto implement our pressing system.
But whatever... carry on... Bravo should definately have handled the ball, and KDB is the greatest defender ever. Uh, in your book at least.
Nice post simon23. And there's much in this that I agree with.
Yet, there's another angle you didn't mention - sheer physical ability.
Some people can run forever - a football match is a trivial excursion.
Others aren't nearly so gifted. Running for a full 90 minutes is extremely hard or impossible.
In the can't run for 90 category - there's Yaya, Ozil, Silva, etc.
In the running for 90 is very difficult - is KDB.
In the never seems to tire category - is Fernandinho, Sterling, Navas, Nolito, Teves, etc.
============
In Pep's system, once the ball turns over, there needs to be an immediate press of the opponent who has the ball by whomever is nearest him.
At the exact same time, everyone else near the ball needs to quickly move to cut off passing angles.
To implement this system for a full 90 requires a lot of stamina - Yaya, IMO, is incapable of this. So too, I think, is Silva, though Silva is going to do his best.
KDB for me, can't last the full 90 either.
But Kun, IMO, has the motor to press for the full 90 - that he does not, is, IMO - perhaps arguably - why he didn't start against Barca.
Nolito, Sterling and Navas can press all day long.
In Pep's system, it doesn't matter if you're great winning the ball back one-on-one - what matters is that you press/shadow-press. Even if you hardly ever win the ball back one-on-one, so long as you press your man if he has the ball, you're going to put the attacker under great pressure; which is all that the system demands.
=========
If you watch City's games closely...
Our press is great at the start of the game.
And is pretty good until half time.
=============
Half time and a rested squad appears - pressing is still pretty good.
But, after, say 60 minutes. huge problems arise with our strategy.
No longer is Silva or KDB quickly pressing. As a result, the opponents are able to play it out from the back.
This is why I've downrated KDB defensuveky- he simply lacks the stamina to play Pep's system for the full 90 against a competitive squad IMO.
I can't argue with much of this... it's a matter of opinion after all.The only ones who do have the stamina you mention is fernandihnio and the likes of fernando (who isn't good enough in other areas) and maybe Ilkay......
I disagree on Kun...I don't think he does have the stamina to do it.......he knows it as well and he knows in his own head that this will lead to injury as well.....
Sterling does have that stamina (his age is a factor in this as well) and that is why we are buying Gabriel Jesus as well..he will do the same
Not seen enough of sane to know to be honest