Sergio Aguero - 2016/17 performances

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domalino said:
I think i made it painstakingly clear where I rate him when I said KDB was our best presser. If you take the time to read my posts before replying to them you'll save us all some time.
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Finally you rank KDB.

Thank you.

I'll agree that, at the start of matches KDB does what's expected of him. Either immediately man-on-man pressing whomever has won the ball or shadow pressing otherwise. After about 30 minutes, this drops off considerably.

At the start of the second half - KDB is back to his best on defense. But this rapidly deterioriates. After about minute 60 or so, DKB isn't pressing at all - Pep's entire system breaks down.
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The above observations of course only apply to a team that is going to press us in turn.

Hell, if the opposition is just going to bunker in for the full 90 - then KDB is perfect.

But against teams like Spurs, Pool, Swansea, Barca, Celtic, etc. that are going to press us... KDB is a defensive liability past the 60 minute mark. Often his offensive skill's offset this.
 
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Terra Passenger said:
Finally you rank KDB.

Thank you.

I'll agree that, at the start of matches KDB does what's expected of him. Either immediately man-on-man pressing whomever has won the ball or shadow pressing otherwise. After about 30 minutes, this drops off considerably.

At the start of the second half - KDB is back to his best on defense. But this rapidly deterioriates. After about minute 60 or so, DKB isn't pressing at all - Pep's entire system breaks down entirely.
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The above observations of course only apply to a team that is going to press us in turn.

Hell, if the opposition is just going to bunker in for the full 90 - then KDB is perfect.

But against teams like Spurs, Pool, Swansea, Barca, etc. that are going to press us... KDB is a defensive liability past the 60 minute mark. Often his offensive skill's offset this.
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Finally? I said it in my first comment 3 pages ago, just use your eyes.

domalino said:
This list is such a hilariously bad appraisal of how good the players are at pressing I'm actually wondering if you watch games at all.

De Bruyne is unquestionably our best presser, both in terms of intensity, and his decisions of when and who to press. He is the player that completely leads the defensive effort and Pep said as much after the Bournemouth game. The reason he gets tired is because, like Lallana at Liverpool, he leads the press and never stops sprinting to close people down. That's also why he runs further than anyone else on the team.

The fact that you think Aguero, who Guardiola has frequently said he want more from off the ball, is better at pressing than De Bruyne is like writing "I don't have a clue" across your forehead in giant red marker.
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Sergio on his day is the best striker....he's not even close to being the hardest working striker...imagine how good he could be....time for Kun to park the ego (if its in evidence) and work twice as hard. If he listens to Pep i see a Ballon Dor coming his way in the next 3 yeats !
 
Neville Kneville said:
I was away for the Everton game & had to make do with a shit stream.

Having watched it since, I think we were fantastic apart from a few instances of dumb defending & some shite play in the final 3rd. Same v Barca. Best ever performance by a City team in Europe bar final 3rd & stupid mistakes imo.

Re Sergio, I think someone is about to cop it, in a big way. Hopefully both Southampton & the rags. He will take it all out on someone, very soon.
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Yeah me too. I've triple captained him in fantasy football.
 
Lancet Fluke said:
Blimey, just goes to show how differently we can all see the same thing. I thought it was decent enough in patches and obviously we were the better team by far but we just didn't make anywhere near enough chances from open play for me to be thinking it was absolutely incredible or anything. Just a good performance where we should have won by a couple of goals against an ok team that will probably finish mid-table.
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You're absolutely entitled to that opinion, and it is probably more qualified than mine, I'd wager you watch more football than I do! Still, even though I thought it was great football, I'm left in little doubt that it's still a work in progress!
 
This is certainly a thought provoking forum where you get to make lots of new friends, and share the love for our wonderful club.

I especially like the way that posters respect other people's opinions.

Only in football eh ?
 
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Colin Bells Boots said:
This is certainly a thought provoking forum where you get to make lots of new friends, and share the love for our wonderful club.

I especially like the way that posters respect other people's opinions.

Only in football eh ?
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If only it were true of those sending me abusive PMs because I have expressed that I don't love Pep.
 
Colin Bells Boots said:
This is certainly a thought provoking forum where you get to make lots of new friends, and share the love for our wonderful club.

I especially like the way that posters respect other people's opinions.

Only in football eh ?
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Ha! :-)

Sorry for any discord/discomfort I may have caused.

Some positive stuff to hopefully make some amends...

Sergio is the best striker in the EPL bar none - and in world football is in the top 3 or so.

We're lucky to have Kun in our side.
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Realistic stuff follows...

And yet, Kun clearly isn't giving it his all - he's dejected and unsatisfied.

The above has lead to Kun walking about the pitch at times and drifting far back to get the ball.
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Under Pep, such an attitude is unacceptable.

Kun needs to stay up front (unless we're playing a false 9) and move the defense out of possition or make a killer run to defeat the defense.

He must not move back to receive the ball unless instructed to do so as this kills the entire offensive plan.
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And on defense, Kun must press/shadow press at all times. He cannot walk around, observing the play but contributing nothing.
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It's Kun's lack of focus that's apparently upset Pep at the moment.
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But Kun is a good guy from all appearances. I expect he'll take it on board and go out trying his best.
 
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markbmcfc said:
It's amazing how better tactics and ruthless management really bring out the stupidity and general lack of football knowledge of a fanbase.
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To me it's stupid he was rested against Everton when we then rested him against Barcelona. So if that's me being stupid then so be it
 
quiet_riot said:
You're absolutely entitled to that opinion, and it is probably more qualified than mine, I'd wager you watch more football than I do! Still, even though I thought it was great football, I'm left in little doubt that it's still a work in progress!
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I don't think my opinion is any more qualified than yours at all. Everyone sees every match slightly differently, it's one of the joys of football.
 
bluealf said:
What has that got to do with the post I replied too ?

Again another one of Peps top fans talks down to a poster who doesn't agree with them, we are not stupid, we do understand the tactics as to why he put Aguero on the bench, the point being we had nobody to finish the chances off that was created, so all in all it was a pretty stupid idea no ?

It wasted KDB and Aguero's talent and we then got stuffed 4-0, even when it was all working we were still getting beat 1-0, so not brilliant after all.

you talked about a manager picking players on merit, giving Yaya and Pellegrini as a reverse example of it, now your reply focuses on the tactical aspect of dropping our top scorer, that is fine but not what I was replying to originally is it ?

I asked you what Aguero had done wrong as your implied that our new tough manager picked players on merit.

Tbh I could give two stuffs what you think and it is increasingly like talking to lovesick teenagers, I like Pep well enough and think he will bring success to the team but some things can be questioned and dropping Aguero for whatever reason and leaving us toothless in attack was one such instance, his tactic could have created 50 chances but if our non strikers do not put them away and we lose or draw 0-0 then it is still pretty pointless to drop the best goal scorer at the club.

So you can take your condescending replies and shove them where the sun shines no longer.
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Firstly, I want to apologize if my post came off as talking down, that wasn't my intent. Now let me go read your full response :)
 
bluealf said:
What has that got to do with the post I replied too ?

Again another one of Peps top fans talks down to a poster who doesn't agree with them, we are not stupid, we do understand the tactics as to why he put Aguero on the bench, the point being we had nobody to finish the chances off that was created, so all in all it was a pretty stupid idea no ?

It wasted KDB and Aguero's talent and we then got stuffed 4-0, even when it was all working we were still getting beat 1-0, so not brilliant after all.

you talked about a manager picking players on merit, giving Yaya and Pellegrini as a reverse example of it, now your reply focuses on the tactical aspect of dropping our top scorer, that is fine but not what I was replying to originally is it ?

I asked you what Aguero had done wrong as your implied that our new tough manager picked players on merit.

Tbh I could give two stuffs what you think and it is increasingly like talking to lovesick teenagers, I like Pep well enough and think he will bring success to the team but some things can be questioned and dropping Aguero for whatever reason and leaving us toothless in attack was one such instance, his tactic could have created 50 chances but if our non strikers do not put them away and we lose or draw 0-0 then it is still pretty pointless to drop the best goal scorer at the club.

So you can take your condescending replies and shove them where the sun shines no longer.
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Now that I've read your full response, it was more of an angry retort to a post you deemed condescending. Fair enough. But to answer your only question:

Aguero had shown an inability to press well and hold on to the ball. That's why he was dropped on merit against a team that was going to own possession if we 1) didn't press them and 2) don't hold possession strongly.

Also, DeBryune and Nolito are pretty good finishers in their own right. While neither is as good as Aguero they are no slouches by any stretch of the imagination.

Besides, the notion that the results of the outcome supports your position that Aguero should have played is a farcical argument. Seeing as the results were no different the previous times we've played them with Aguero present.

It's a 2 sided problem. If Aguero is in there, we hold on to the ball less and we press less. Common sense suggests we create less too. So there would be fewer chances for Aguero to get on the end of. If he isn't we create more but we have less accomplished finishers at the end of the chance. Pep chose the latter, seeing as he had Kev, Nolito and Sterling on the field.

You are right. I agree with him.
 
Benarbia said:
To me it's stupid he was rested against Everton when we then rested him against Barcelona. So if that's me being stupid then so be it
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Tweaked his groin against Celtic and felt it again on international duty, resting against Everton was perhaps precautionary because he wanted him fully fit to be an impact sub against Barca.
 
Terra Passenger said:
You're somewhat on the right track. But off course in other points.

Barca is a better team - better players. And they play a similar system.

Still, pressing Barca whenever possible to gain possession was absolutely part of Pep's plans. At best, I think Pep hoped for 50-50 possession.
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Attackers we had available and their ability to press::
Silva, very weak. Also tires as the game goes on.
KDB, not great. And seems to tire even more than Silva.
Kun - actually pretty good when he puts a shift in.
Gundugan - no problem, but might not last a full 90 if asked to press contently.
Sterling - OK. Great stamina and would at least shadow press when necessary.
Nolito - probably more than satisfactory. Doesn't seem to tire.
'Nacho - also probably OK. Good stamina.
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So, of the above to start, pressing full-time as very important and yet ability to score when in possession also important, I'd have started, in order of preference:
Gundugan
Nolito
Kun
Sterling
KDB
'Nacho
Silva

Kun is far up that list. That he didn't actually start either means that:
1) my assessment of Kun's pressing ability is off; or
2) Pep was sending a message - Kun needs to follow instructions, pressing whenever the ball turns over, staying up front, and moving to create passing opportunities and to move defenders out of possession.

In my book it's 2 (yes there are other reasons why Kun might not have started... possible injury concerns which we're not aware of.. etc. Nonetheless, several posters have pointed to a possible dissatisfaction with Kun's recent performances on the part of Pep - not pressing and drifting back to get the ball - that Kun then doesn't start in our biggest game of the season suggests that Pep is indeed not satisfied with Kun's performances of late.
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I think your assessment of Kun's pressing is off. But it's not just his pressing, it's also his ability to follow instructions.

I think he more so than any other player is inclined to do what he wants as opposed to what is being asked.

Also I think you grossly underestimate Silva's press. He is not a natural, but he buys into Pep's philosophy hook line and sinker.

Press wise I'd rank them as follows
Dihno
DeBryune
Nolito
Sterling
Silva
Gundogan
Aguero.

Gundogan's I excuse due to him just getting acclimated. But Aguero is by a good margin the weakest.
 
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