It's Quiet - a new dawn

[domalino]

Stop acting like 'Holier than Thou' when you can provide nothing but words, and personal attacks because you've got nothing better

Oh god, the irony of someone who's got nothing to back up their argument complaining that I've got nothing but words to back up mine.

I'm feeling charitable, so I'll make one last attempt of getting things through to you.

with Willy leaving maybe we shouldn't take the same risk with a very similar keeper.

Ederson is not a very similar keeper to Bravo just because he's good at distribution. Anyone who's watched Ederson for 10 minutes would know this. He's 3 inches taller and a stone heavier for starters.

Conceding so few goals at Barcelona doesn't really mean he's making colossal saves, it means Barca's opponents are so busy trying to stop MSN the entire game.

Claudio Bravo made 3.4 saves per goal conceded last season. This is amongst the best in Europe. He made dozens of great saves, videos of these saves are easily found online.


]How many of them were from corner kicks or high crosses? They play different in Spain, they keep the ball mostly on the ground and they don't have big physical strikers or players using their physique to push keepers there. In the Premier League they figured out his weakness in his first game and abused it every time he played and every time it paid off. He may be the best goal keeper in Spain but it didn't translate well to the Premier League




Manchester City conceded 9 goals from set pieces in total this season in the league. Here's a table:

Willy Caballero conceded 4 of those goals from set pieces.

1 Calum Chambers for middlesbrough, 2 Eden Hazard, Chelsea away, 3 Mustafi Arsenal away, 4 Walcott Arsenal away.

So in 17 games, Caballero conceded 4 goals from set pieces, and in 19 games Bravo conceded 5.

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM. We aren't being "abused everytime he plays" like you claim, that is wrong.

but do we really need a Neymar-keeper and risk leaking goals game after game like we did this season?

I mean..Neymar-keeper.... seriously?


You can complain about my being "Holier than thou" as much as you like - it's true, I tend to have a short fuse when it comes to people who rely on nothing but Paul Merson soundbites and baseless stereotypes to make their arguments - but the thing is, you are wrong, about pretty much everything you've argued.

- Ederson is not Bravo 2.0

- Bravo was not in some goalkeeping Utopia at Barcelona where he never faced a shot or made a save.

- Bravo was not exploited by opposing teams because he was bad under the high ball or at set pieces.



So no, we shouldn't be worried about Ederson being a "Neymar-like" goalkeeper, and no, if we keep Bravo as a 2nd choice keeper, we wont concede at every single set piece.

 

[domalino]

The important stat re Bravo is how dominant Barca generally are and many teams don't register a single shot on target against them. Even a Gary Bailey could have kept clean sheets in that side.

Bravo faced more shots per game last season at Barcelona then he did here.

This idea he never had to make a save is complete and utter bollocks and I have no idea why it exists.

Oh look, another thread that's turned into a Bravo debate..

I appreciate it's a tired debate, but when it links to our transfer policy (Keeping Bravo vs. keeping Willy) or people think a transfer target, Ederson, is exactly like Bravo and therefore a bad target, it does become relevant to the transfer forum doesn't it?

 

[ShaunMcCallion1880]

Loved when this was just a place to get giddy on potential signings

 

[Akiva]

Loved when this was just a place to get giddy on potential signings

We need some videos in here stat, @tolmie's hairdoo

 

[Neville Kneville]

The OP states we have already sorted it,we certainly would not have released Clichy had we not.

I have respect for the op but as is often pointed out, he is just passing on info he gets, in good faith.

I don't believe we have Sandro tied up, at least at club level, but I'll hapilly be wrong.

Clichy going, imo is of the same level as when Sinclair went. He is no longer viable & almost anyone is an improvement.

 

[rollingnakedinmoney]

Oh god, the irony of someone who's got nothing to back up their argument complaining that I've got nothing but words to back up mine.

I'm feeling charitable, so I'll make one last attempt of getting things through to you.



Ederson is not a very similar keeper to Bravo just because he's good at distribution. Anyone who's watched Ederson for 10 minutes would know this. He's 3 inches taller and a stone heavier for starters.



Claudio Bravo made 3.4 saves per goal conceded last season. This is amongst the best in Europe. He made dozens of great saves, videos of these saves are easily found online.


]How many of them were from corner kicks or high crosses? They play different in Spain, they keep the ball mostly on the ground and they don't have big physical strikers or players using their physique to push keepers there. In the Premier League they figured out his weakness in his first game and abused it every time he played and every time it paid off. He may be the best goal keeper in Spain but it didn't translate well to the Premier League




Manchester City conceded 9 goals from set pieces in total this season in the league. Here's a table:

Willy Caballero conceded 4 of those goals from set pieces.

1 Calum Chambers for middlesbrough, 2 Eden Hazard, Chelsea away, 3 Mustafi Arsenal away, 4 Walcott Arsenal away.

So in 17 games, Caballero conceded 4 goals from set pieces, and in 19 games Bravo conceded 5.

THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM. We aren't being "abused everytime he plays" like you claim, that is wrong.






I mean..Neymar-keeper.... seriously?


You can complain about my being "Holier than thou" as much as you like - it's true, I tend to have a short fuse when it comes to people who rely on nothing but Paul Merson soundbites and baseless stereotypes to make their arguments - but the thing is, you are wrong, about pretty much everything you've argued.

- Ederson is not Bravo 2.0

- Bravo was not in some goalkeeping Utopia at Barcelona where he never faced a shot or made a save.

- Bravo was not exploited by opposing teams because he was bad under the high ball or at set pieces.



So no, we shouldn't be worried about Ederson being a "Neymar-like" goalkeeper, and no, if we keep Bravo as a 2nd choice keeper, we wont concede at every single set piece.

Who said anything about Ederson?

Also, don't make me retype the same thing. I don't care about his statistics in Spain, different league, different strikers, different style. I care about his statistics and performances in the Premier League. And his premier league statistics and performances suck balls so far. I gave you the statistical comparison between Bravo and Willy playing for Manchester City, go back to my previous post it's there, and I watched his miserable performances every time he played for us. You're making a fool out of yourself, even Pep disagrees with you that he benched Bravo for Willy, who should've been the 3rd keeper but ended up benching Bravo. What a joke..

And by the way, if Ederson's distribution is so bad as you claim (I've never seen him enough to say anything, I keep reading his name here) then why did Pep make a bid on him? Every one of your arguments contradicts itself. Try the decaf..

 

[ShaunMcCallion1880]

We need some videos in here stat, @tolmie's hairdoo

Agreed lol

 

[domalino]

Who said anything about Ederson?

Also, don't make me retype the same thing. I don't care about his statistics in Spain, different league, different strikers, different style. I care about his statistics and performances in the Premier League. And his premier league statistics and performances suck balls so far. I gave you the statistical comparison between Bravo and Willy playing for Manchester City, go back to my previous post it's there, and I watched his miserable performances every time he played for us. You're making a fool out of yourself, even Pep disagrees with you that he benched Bravo for Willy, who should've been the 3rd keeper but ended up benching Bravo. What a joke..

And by the way, if Ederson's distribution is so bad as you claim (I've never seen him enough to say anything, I keep reading his name here) then why did Pep make a bid on him? Every one of your arguments contradicts itself. Try the decaf..

I'm in actual disbelief about how you can miss the point so entirely.

I don't care about his statistics in Spain, different league, different strikers, different style.

You brought up his statistics in Spain. "He never had to make a save for Barcelona" - I pointed out that's completely not true.

I care about his statistics and performances in the Premier League.

Which is why I provided statistics showing he concedes no more goals from set pieces than Caballero.

even Pep disagrees with you that he benched Bravo for Willy

No, he doesn't. Apart from the fact Pep's consistently backed him, and brought him back into the side before his injury, I never said Bravo was good, in fact it's been a pretty consistent point in all of my posts that Bravo was awful this season and shouldn't be number 1 next season.

And by the way, if Ederson's distribution is so bad as you claim

That is literally the exact opposite of what I argued!

Is this trolling now? You can't be that stupid.

 

[rollingnakedinmoney]

That's why I included Ter Stegens stats too, for comparison, in my post above. Bravo if course has also been prolific for Chile and was amazing with Real Sociedad before Barca too.

He's been shit for us, no doubt about it, but he's still a top goalkeeper as Pep routinely points out. Our defence was all out at sea early on, lacking shape and solidity without Vinny. Bravo's lack of English didn't help, but it ultimately ended up with him in many one on one situations and, as is typical with City, the media and fans got on his back and the head went down.

True our defence was a mess no doubt. But Willy played behind the same defence and the difference between them was obvious. Now I'm not arguing that Willy Caballero should be our first choice keeper (I'd still prefer him over Bravo if it came down to those two), but I want a goalkeeper who's at least on par with the likes of Courtois, Lloris, maybe Kasper, De Gea.

Speaking of Courtois, I just remembered that Chelsea game that we lost 1-3 where Courtois made save after save and Bravo let every shot in.

 

[BAB.DAB]

Wish it was quiet
Bravo Willy war is boring