Israel-Palestine Conflict

[Homar]

You need to understand how the armed forces work.

By all means vent your anger and displeasure at the officers and politicians in charge who give the orders to shoot but those on the ground have no options but to comply with those orders.

Its how it works mate.

That’s bullshit. The Nuremberg Trials established that this is not a valid justification.

 

[west didsblue]

Well, I presented a detailed account of the situation that led to the four maps. You are basing your arguments based on the McGraw Hill paranoia that led them to withdraw the maps in the first place as it recognise ownership of land by Palestinians rather. If they were not demanded to withdraw the map and destroy all published instances of it, everyone will see the map as is, rather than a map supposedly based on propaganda, which itself has been regarded as communities worldwide being the actual propaganda.

Your arguments were below:

1. Lands were not owned by Palestinians but by absentee landlords.

My response was the term 'absentee landlords' has already been investigated by Knesset to represent land whose owner did not know they were sold by mukhtars who wrote fraudulent affidavits. And that land can be claim absentee landlord once you drive the Palestinian owner out of their land via present absentee.

Land grab strategy = appropriation of small areas of land.

2. The map of the UN Partition Plan was rejected by Arab.

everyone who read Palestine issue knows what the regardless of the plan not being enacted by the UN, the resolution of the partition plan was adopted as the boundaries by Israel, explicitly stated 3 times in the Declaration of Independence. The only difference was instead of it being enacted by the UN resolution, it was enacted by the Haganah under Plan Dalet. Read about plan Dalet and you will see how crucial the Partition Plan was in Israel's preparation to strategically place yishuvs in the areas assigned by the partition plan under Plan Alef, Bet and Gimel prior to Dalet.

Land grab strategy = referred to in Israel's declaration as the main justification for the State of Israel, regardless of it being followed through by the UN. It was a clandestine series of plans to realise the partition by the Haganah.

3. Gaza and West Bank under Egypt and Jordan.

The map expands from 1949 to 1967 of course the annexation of these parts will be part of its timeline. It's not the green parts that is the issue, it's the white parts of the map, showing areas where land has been grabbed based on the 1948 seizure of land (see above).

Land grab strategy = The partition plan being realised by the Haganah, and more.

I’d say that it IS the green parts that are the issue as they are the most misleading parts of the maps, particularly the first and third maps, where Ottoman, Jordanian and Egyptian controlled lands are incorrectly labelled Palestinian.
There is an equally valid argument that the Israelis have traded land for peace since 1973 by handing over the Sinai, Gaza, South Lebanon and parts of the West Bank reducing the area under Israeli control by around two thirds.

 

[Ric]

These threads are always highly emotive, but let’s try and just discuss the topic rather than being abusive to the poster. Cheers.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Hitler’s got a lot to answer for.

 

[blueinsa]

That’s bullshit. The Nuremberg Trials established that this is not a valid justification.

Who went on trial at Nuremberg?

Senior officers and political leaders or Private Wolf and Lance Corporal Helmut?

Actually read what it is i have said and the context in which i have said it.

Again for the avoidance of doubt, vent your anger (rightly so) at the political leadership and Army top brass by all means but the bods on the ground are following orders and rules of engagement, something all armed forces do.

I dont condone the action taken as it was completely disproportionate!

 

[Vic]

I’d say that it IS the green parts that are the issue as they are the most misleading parts of the maps, particularly the first and third maps, where Ottoman, Jordanian and Egyptian controlled lands are incorrectly labelled Palestinian.
There is an equally valid argument that the Israelis have traded land for peace since 1973 by handing over the Sinai, Gaza, South Lebanon and parts of the West Bank reducing the area under Israeli control by around two thirds.

It wasn't their land to trade.

 

[SWP's back]

It wasn't their land to trade.

Those other countries that forfeited it shouldn’t have attacked them then eh.

 

[Vic]

Stil doesn't make it their land. If simple conquest made land "your" land, how would Israel have had any right to any land in the area?

By terrorism against the same British authorities who had promised them a home?

 

[Homar]

Who went on trial at Nuremberg?

Senior officers and political leaders or Private Wolf and Lance Corporal Helmut?

It's irrelevant. If you accept the defence of Superior Orders for foot soldiers then you must accept that defence right the way up the chain of command. Many Nazi war criminals were found guilty, not only high-ranking officers. If you accept this defence then what of ISIS "soldiers"? In that case you could make an even stronger argument, since the punishment for failing to respect the chain of command is certain death. Soldiers have a moral and legal duty to reject their superior commanding officer's orders when those orders are manifestly illegal, immoral or unethical. In particular, soldiers are legally required to reject orders that violate the Geneva Conventions or the Rome Statute. Shooting unarmed protesters from distance is a war crime.

 

[west didsblue]

Stil doesn't make it their land. If simple conquest made land "your" land, how would Israel have had any right to any land in the area?

By terrorism against the same British authorities who had promised them a home?

Have you ever wondered why many of the national borders in the world are where they are?