The NHS and its future

But that’s not what the NHS was set up for, next they will, be saying you need to set up social,housing for them etc etc. IVF can be paid for out your own pocket the same with the other stuff, it seems to me that we either pay extra for the nhs to fund these things or we stop doing them. So what do people want? I’m all for an extra 1p on income tax if it means getting in to see a doctor etc when I want but that money should be used onky for nhs, same as road tax should onky be used for our roads.

And that's a fair point, no it wasn't mate. Times have changed though. In the 1940s there was no such as thing as preventative medicine. A patient could smoke in hospital until the late 70s but now the NHS funds people to give up. Prevention is better than cure became more widespread as the cost benefit analysis showed that prevention was cheaper than cure. As that mantra has progressed we see more prevention because it is cost effective which in the long run benefits all of us and frees up money for other things. Personally I think its a great achievement of the NHS that it has moved in this direction and I know my Prof is a great advocate of prevention as he knows it saves money in the long run that can be used for other things. I understand it sounds bizarre that spending thousands on something like IVF can be cost effective, but over the longer term if for instance may keep the woman from becoming depressed it saves money on medicines, hospitalisation and other co-morbidities. The other side of IVF is that it produces children which in capitalist terms are future units of production who will pay tax that eventually covers their own births. Im not saying the NHS should be responsible for everything but I do congratulate the NHS for its foresight and ability to see the bigger picture rather than the instance.
 
I see the BBC headlines say the government will give an extra £20bn to the NHS, as a 70th anniversary birthday present.

Since when have the Tories ever been generous to the public sector, especially the NHS?

This is looking more and more like a headline news grabber for party electioneering purposes, I suspect another general election is in the offing, considering May is struggling to keep her party together due to all the Brexit infighting.
Damned if they do, damned if they don't
 
Just seen on bbc news that under Labour NHS spending peaked at 6% of national budget; under the coalition it was just 1.1% and currently around 2.5%.

Shows the Torres don’t care. It should be at least 4-5%.
 
Just seen on bbc news that under Labour NHS spending peaked at 6% of national budget; under the coalition it was just 1.1% and currently around 2.5%.

Shows the Torres don’t care. It should be at least 4-5%.
What's a national budget? Do you mean GDP?
 
Damned if they do, damned if they don't

Perhaps it's because I still remember the days of chronic under-funding of the NHS during the Thatcher years and I'm also sure it was John Major who first introduced Private Finance Initiatives into the public sector, at complete rip off prices for new buildings (this was continued enthusiastically by "New Labour" by the way).

I simply don't trust the Tories, Lib Dems or New Labour, they are all right wing profiteers and parasites, representing the interests of the few, rather than the many.
 
And that's a fair point, no it wasn't mate. Times have changed though. In the 1940s there was no such as thing as preventative medicine. A patient could smoke in hospital until the late 70s but now the NHS funds people to give up. Prevention is better than cure became more widespread as the cost benefit analysis showed that prevention was cheaper than cure. As that mantra has progressed we see more prevention because it is cost effective which in the long run benefits all of us and frees up money for other things. Personally I think its a great achievement of the NHS that it has moved in this direction and I know my Prof is a great advocate of prevention as he knows it saves money in the long run that can be used for other things. I understand it sounds bizarre that spending thousands on something like IVF can be cost effective, but over the longer term if for instance may keep the woman from becoming depressed it saves money on medicines, hospitalisation and other co-morbidities. The other side of IVF is that it produces children which in capitalist terms are future units of production who will pay tax that eventually covers their own births. Im not saying the NHS should be responsible for everything but I do congratulate the NHS for its foresight and ability to see the bigger picture rather than the instance.
Plenty of children to adopt out there, I’m all for preventative measures but that had to be balanced against actually providing what’s need now, like I said before lots of people won’t help themselves and I’m afraid I couldn’t give a toss about them, obese diet and excessive if you don’t do it then why should we pay for a gastric band? IVF you want it that bad pay for it (I did) or adopt (our next option), stop fucking smoking and drinking to excess, charge people in A&E if it’s alcohol related, insurance companies don’t pay up if you get pissed abroad and screw up so why should the NHS.
 
Plenty of children to adopt out there, I’m all for preventative measures but that had to be balanced against actually providing what’s need now, like I said before lots of people won’t help themselves and I’m afraid I couldn’t give a toss about them, obese diet and excessive if you don’t do it then why should we pay for a gastric band? IVF you want it that bad pay for it (I did) or adopt (our next option), stop fucking smoking and drinking to excess, charge people in A&E if it’s alcohol related, insurance companies don’t pay up if you get pissed abroad and screw up so why should the NHS.
I'm with you pal,attitudes are all wrong,its a way of life for many.This 'self entitled/contribute fuck all' society,we live in,makes my blood boil.
 
Another way to reduce costs would be to modify the prescription system (I understand the Scots and Welsh pay nothing).

Increase the age of free meds to 65 since retirement age has increased. Have an incremental charge on kids depending on age, so at least a couple of quid is charged per prescription, get rid of the maternity exemption so at least a small charge on prescriptions, and consider a income-tax based system so prescription charge is proportional to income (with a maximum cap) and stop exemptions for people with conditions like hypothyroidism and diabetes.
 
Unfortunately there’s a lot of lazy bastards out there who would rather take a pill than excersise and diet and I include my wife in this, it’s like talking to a brick wall, I’ve given up now so when she gets ill or tired and has hypos I have zero sympathy. I see it all the time at work as well, people need to want to help themselves but we make it to easy for them not to, start charging them for medication and they’d soon think twice about it. Christ people won’t even buy smoke alarms for their house because we give them for free and I’m talking about people who are not poor either, we see people who would rather spend £10 on a packet of fags rather than house insurance then when it burns down they are fucked it’s endemic in our society now.

I agree what you say is often the case. It’s a bid like the Etihad Stadium expansion thread where people want the North Stand expanded and filled with cheap seats, supported by a brand new transport infrastructure for one game a week to get people back in the ground who would rather watch the match in the pub (when a third of the seats in the existing stand are sold to Season card holders who only turn up for the biggest games).
 
Plenty of children to adopt out there, IVF you want it that bad pay for it (I did) or adopt (our next option).

Maybe some folk can't afford to go down the private route with IVF. Would you honestly stop some poor fucker from having this on the NHS given that they'd already suffered knowing they have fertility problems?
 

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