World Cup 2018 | 14th July | Third Place: Belgium vs England, KO 15:00 (BST)

mosssideblue said:
Tell me then what qualities he brings and how he is such the team player you make him out to be. I personally found him selfish and more interested in himself, but I am open minded to your observations
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Undoubtedly, he can be selfish when in goalscoring positions - as many prolific goal scorers are. They have great self belief and always back themselves to score. That's what makes them so good at what they do.

But being selfish in front of goal and being a team player are not mutually exclusive. There's far more to being a team player than merely providing assists for team mates (something which Kane does plenty, by the way). For England, in this World Cup, Kane was asked to change his normal game; to come much deeper and allow the likes of Sterling and Rashford to run beyond him. That's why he had so few opportunities to score. He did a thankless, unglamorous task reasonably well, often without support - winning headers from long balls; holding the ball up; drawing fouls; drawing markers to free up space for others etc.

For Spurs, Kane is even more of a team player. He works his nuts off - pressing, making great runs, passing. All in addition to scoring a hatful. So, while there are undoubtedly parts of his game that could do with plenty of improvement, to describe him not merely as "not a team player" but, in fact, as "not a team player at all" is woefully wide of the mark.

mosssideblue said:
Why was my last comment stupid - do explain
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I'm guessing because you made a scapegoat of one player on account of one incident a third of the way into the game when the truth is that there were plenty of reasons why England lost with plenty of people responsible.
 
JimB said:
Undoubtedly, he can be selfish when in goalscoring positions - as many prolific goal scorers are. They have great self belief and always back themselves to score. That's what makes them so good at what they do.

But being selfish in front of goal and being a team player are not mutually exclusive. There's far more to being a team player than merely providing assists for team mates (something which Kane does plenty, by the way). For England, in this World Cup, Kane was asked to change his normal game; to come much deeper and allow the likes of Sterling and Rashford to run beyond him. That's why he had so few opportunities to score. He did a thankless, unglamorous task reasonably well, often without support - winning headers from long balls; holding the ball up; drawing fouls; drawing markers to free up space for others etc.

For Spurs, Kane is even more of a team player. He works his nuts off - pressing, making great runs, passing. All in addition to scoring a hatful. So, while there are undoubtedly parts of his game that could do with plenty of improvement, to describe him not merely as "not a team player" but, in fact, as "not a team player at all" is woefully wide of the mark.



I'm guessing because you made a scapegoat of one player on account of one incident a third of the way into the game when the truth is that there were plenty of reasons why England lost with plenty of people responsible.
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Thank you for a reasoned response but I am referring to kane playing for England and not spurs. Irrespective of the position he being asked to play, I did not see the positive attributes you did (despite watching every England game), so we will simply disagree.

He made the wrong call in going for glory against Croatia and (assuming Sterling scored), we would have gone two up and playing the better. That isn't to say they wouldn't have come back, but at 2-0 up, it would have bee much harder for them, so I stand by the comment that I believe he cost us that game.
 
Just a thought
If John Stones took England's penalties - he would be the winner of the golden boot.
Where would that leave Captain Kane?
 
Owdman said:
Just a thought
If John Stones took England's penalties - he would be the winner of the golden boot.
Where would that leave Captain Kane?
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Didn't Kane win two of the penalties?

And why do people assume that a penalty is an automatic goal?

A number were missed including two by Messi and Ronaldo, it's not a formality.
 
mosssideblue said:
Thank you for a reasoned response but I am referring to kane playing for England and not spurs. Irrespective of the position he being asked to play, I did not see the positive attributes you did (despite watching every England game), so we will simply disagree.

He made the wrong call in going for glory against Croatia and (assuming Sterling scored), we would have gone two up and playing the better. That isn't to say they wouldn't have come back, but at 2-0 up, it would have bee much harder for them, so I stand by the comment that I believe he cost us that game.
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By the same token, England were 1-0 up and only 30 minutes from the World Cup final when Kyle Walker allowed Perisic to get in front of him to score the equaliser. So just as valid to say that Walker cost us the game. And we were still at 1-1, having dominated the first half of extra time, when Maguire and Stones had a lapse in concentration early in the second half of extra time to leave Mandzukic free to score the winner. So just as valid to say that they cost us the game. Or that England were in control of the game in the first half of normal time before changing the way they were playing to allow Croatia to dominate possession and intensify the pressure - with the almost inevitable result that Croatia eventually scored. So maybe the whole team were to blame? Not to mention Gareth Southgate, of course, who made some strange calls. Maybe that cost us the game?

Lots of reasons. Lots of people. No one incident. No scapegoats.
 
Owdman said:
Stones could have afforded to miss one of the penalties and still win the golden boot.
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Why would someone who wasn't even in our top five penalty takers for the shoot-out against Colombia, be taking penalties in a match?

Is it because he plays for City?
 
JimB said:
By the same token, England were 1-0 up and only 30 minutes from the World Cup final when Kyle Walker allowed Perisic to get in front of him to score the equaliser. So just as valid to say that Walker cost us the game. And we were still at 1-1, having dominated the first half of extra time, when Maguire and Stones had a lapse in concentration early in the second half of extra time to leave Mandzukic free to score the winner. So just as valid to say that they cost us the game. Or that England were in control of the game in the first half of normal time before changing the way they were playing to allow Croatia to dominate possession and intensify the pressure - with the almost inevitable result that Croatia eventually scored. So maybe the whole team were to blame? Not to mention Gareth Southgate, of course, who made some strange calls. Maybe that cost us the game?

Lots of reasons. Lots of people. No one incident. No scapegoats.
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As I say, 2 0 up and dominating is a much better position, as we all know, 1 0 isnt a good lead with so much of the match ahead.
 
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