Formed in 2008! No history!

[Deleted member 77198]

Their recent history started in 93.

Takeaway the trophies Fergie won, and they were hardly trophy hoaders, with the exception of winning the European Cup.

They went 26 years without winning the title. 67-93

7 titles before Fergie. 13 titles under Fergie.

If they don’t win the title this season, it will be 6 years since they last won it.

But according to them, they’ve always been a big club from their inception. And their history and fame goes back to their beginnings. When in reality we know the Busby era, the Munich plane crash, and winning the European Cup was the trigger for their support and fame.

Before WW2 they spent 22 of their 43 years in Division 2. One was a stretch of 14 years.

26 official years without any trophy, 37 years proper - 1911-1948

Without City players Meredith, Burgess, Turnbull and Bannister they would likely have never won anything pre-WW2 (they won 2 league titles and an FA Cup between 1908-1911 with the banned ex-City lads as their forward line).

In 1926 City won 1-6 at Old Trafford.

In 1927 their manager, John Chapman, was suspended from football management for “improper conduct in his position as Secretary-Manager of the Manchester United Football Club". He never managed anyone again.

1931 average attendance: 11685
1932 average attendance: 13011

Some home attendances from around that time:
3969 v Boro (2nd May 1931)
3507 v Southampton (2nd September 1931)

Following the death of principal benefactor John Henry Davies in October 1927, the club's finances deteriorated to the extent that Manchester United would likely have gone bankrupt had it not been for James W. Gibson who invested in them in 1931.

1934, avoided relegation to the third division by one point and actually lost more games and conceded more goals than Millwall who finished just below them.

 

[Metalartin]

Glad I found this thread, I've been playing with spreadsheets again.

The reason was to have answers on the hot question on every rag/dipper/arse/spud/chavs lips: "Where were City before 2008 eh-eh?? Yo-yoing between the leagues in division 2 eh?" I realise some may find it sad to even dignify such nonsense with answers but I didn't actually know how today's top 6 really compared and how much room they had to talk. A lot these days is just assumed and even accepted by City fans who are too humble if anything.

So thanks to wiki I was easily able to obtain the data from the big top 6's seasons and compare them, excluding times when no football could be played(war time, inc 3 game seasons which would be pointless). I've been as fair as possible about it but let me know if there's mistakes or improvements to make as I'm no maths genius.

To find out if City do compare as poorly to the rest of the big top6 as every other fan likes to suggest since the takeover. The best solution to my mind was to calculate the percentage of each clubs time since the league began they have spent in the topflight and also what their average(mean) finishing position in the topflight was to go with it.

Starting from 1892-93 the first season of the newly formed Football League's Div 1 and 2 and then ending in 2008-09(since the takeover was half way through the season) I make that 106 proper seasons of football. I discounted the prior 4 seasons(1888-92) as none of the top 6 had been elected to the league at all yet and technically there was no topflight anyway, since it was just one small division before the expansion, which included the absorption of the rival Football Alliance league.

1892-93 Man United were elected to Div1(a head start on everyone else) and Man City were elected to Div2 the same season. Liverpool were elected to Div2 a season later because they were in the Lancashire League. Arsenal didn't take part in the first season but were elected to Div2 in it's 2nd season along with Liverpool. Chelsea were formed in 1905 and joined Div2 the same season(1905-06). Spurs turned professional in 1895 and were in the Southern League from 1896-1908 before joining Div2 in the season of 1908-1909. That means a 4year offset for Spurs and a 13 year offset for Chelsea which could skew the figures slightly.

Topflight Seasons from 1892-93 up to 2008-09
Man City 80 out of 106 = 75% - Mean Average Finishing Position = 11th
Man Utd 84 out of 106 = 79% - Mean Average Finishing Position = 7th
Liverpool 94 out of 106 = 89% - Mean Average Finishing Position = 7th
Arsenal 93 out of 106 = 88% - Mean Average Finishing Position = 7th
Spurs 74 out of 102 = 73% - Mean Average Finishing Position = 10th
Chelsea 74 out of 93 = 80% - Mean Average Finishing Position = 11th

Without City's slide starting in the middle of the 90s which amounted to 4 years in succession out of the topflight(the most in City's history since getting into it), City would have spent the same amount of time as the Rags as a topflight club, who had the advantage of starting off in it. Arsenal got back into the topflight after the war despite finishing outside the promotion places before it, this was by election when the league was expanded, they stayed there ever since and have the longest reign as a topflight club. Spurs and Chelsea's figures are skewed slightly but I have no idea how you'd correct them fairly.

Personally I think this would surprise a fair few of the big sky4 clubs fans, perhaps embarrass them for the nonsense they've been pushing each other to believe.

 

[The Lightbowne Cowboy]

Before WW2 they spent 22 of their 43 years in Division 2. One was a stretch of 14 years.

26 official years without any trophy, 37 years proper - 1911-1948

Without City players Meredith, Burgess, Turnbull and Bannister they would likely have never won anything pre-WW2 (they won 2 league titles and an FA Cup between 1908-1911 with the banned ex-City lads as their forward line).

In 1926 City won 1-6 at Old Trafford.

In 1927 their manager, John Chapman, was suspended from football management for “improper conduct in his position as Secretary-Manager of the Manchester United Football Club". He never managed anyone again.

1931 average attendance: 11685
1932 average attendance: 13011

Some home attendances from around that time:
3969 v Boro (2nd May 1931)
3507 v Southampton (2nd September 1931)

Following the death of principal benefactor John Henry Davies in October 1927, the club's finances deteriorated to the extent that Manchester United would likely have gone bankrupt had it not been for James W. Gibson who invested in them in 1931.

1934, avoided relegation to the third division by one point and actually lost more games and conceded more goals than Millwall who finished just below them.

The vermin only had 3 or 4(think its 3) better average attendances than us between 1900- 1939(2nd world war) but we've got no history.

 

[laserblue]

Before WW2 they spent 22 of their 43 years in Division 2. One was a stretch of 14 years.

26 official years without any trophy, 37 years proper - 1911-1948

Without City players Meredith, Burgess, Turnbull and Bannister they would likely have never won anything pre-WW2 (they won 2 league titles and an FA Cup between 1908-1911 with the banned ex-City lads as their forward line).

In 1926 City won 1-6 at Old Trafford.

In 1927 their manager, John Chapman, was suspended from football management for “improper conduct in his position as Secretary-Manager of the Manchester United Football Club". He never managed anyone again.

1931 average attendance: 11685
1932 average attendance: 13011

Some home attendances from around that time:
3969 v Boro (2nd May 1931)
3507 v Southampton (2nd September 1931)

Following the death of principal benefactor John Henry Davies in October 1927, the club's finances deteriorated to the extent that Manchester United would likely have gone bankrupt had it not been for James W. Gibson who invested in them in 1931.

1934, avoided relegation to the third division by one point and actually lost more games and conceded more goals than Millwall who finished just below them.

Don't forget that the rags bribed the Liverpool team to throw the last game of the season in 1915 to save them from relegation. The rags duly won 2-0 and stayed up. There is a contemporary story that a Liverpool player who hit the bar with a shot met an angry response from some of his team mates. Fortunately for the rags that was the last game before league football stopped for WW1. When it resumed the matter was conveniently brushed under the carpet.

 

[JASR]

The vermin only had 3 or 4(think its 3) better average attendances than us between 1900- 1939(2nd world war) but we've got no history.

Useful yearly stats for attendances (and other) at:
http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/england.htm

1931 United finished 22nd and bottom of top division. They had the 33rd highest average attendance in all divisions.

WWYWYWS - at its truest incarnation.

1965 for city in 2nd division wasn’t great though...

Didn’t know about United almost going into division 3 in 1934. History.

 

[citizenyank76]

In 2008, like Aphrodite, the club appeared fully formed from the white foam from the Heavens.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

By history you mean trophies?

It doesn't compare to Man Utd or Liverpool but what did their honours list look like in the pinnacle of their history under Busby or Shankly?

Our success means so much more to us now, because we remember the bad times and we are the fastest growing club in the world by every single measure:

Growing fan base: See attendance growth, see world wide fan surveys eg Global Digital Trends Surveys
Trophies: e.g. 3 league titles in 7 seasons
Revenue: Surging. In England second only to Man Utd and closing the gap.
Infrastructure: See the changes at the club.it's ongoing and we know this is on-going
Youth teams: Developing an outstanding group of young players. Mourinho feels he can only be competitive with his very best senior players whilst Guardiola revels in pitting his young charges against the best.

You should be able to go onto any forum in the world and absolutely destroy your opposition because the tissue of lies and jealousy about MCFC is incredibly fragile. Most opposition fans fall back on the financial 'doping' argument or the 'human rights' argument. They are incredibly easy arguments to win. The only problem is that 'conquering all' wastes time. What does it really achieve? A keyboard warrior gives you certain skills and then it becomes boring and health of your team lies not in your skills as a street fighter on the Internet but on the quality of the coach and the financial strength of your club so better to do something more fundamental and increase your own capability so that when presented with an argument you can find its flaw i.e. be able to think on your feet. People are not static unless they want to be. Neural development probably is linked to age but they say we only use 1% of our mental capacity so your potential is limited only by your state of mind.

City's success has been an incredible experience. We have gone from watching our club slowly die to seeing it turn around in the lower divisions to fight back under Royle and Keegan and then to experience the ultimate moment in the history of sport through Aguero. All we needed was to be loyal (that's a basic human trait) and be lucky to have been born at a magical time in our history, but we can do more than just watch and cheer. Don't spend too much time arguing.

Great post that, Marv.

 

[Bill]

Does anyone else ever get sick to the back teeth of this nonsense always thrown in our direction? Probably in a lot of circumstances by “fans” who have never been to Old Trafford!!
Could someone please draw up an in your face fact sheet for referral when needed! Lol

I usually tell them that i have been to old Trafford more times than them.
It leaves them with nowhere to go.

 

[pirate]

Is that true? I didn’t know that

http://www.rsssf.com/tablese/engalltime.html

 

[ccr]

I usually tell them that i have been to old Trafford more times than them.
It leaves them with nowhere to go.

At my age now, I tell them I've probably been to Wembley to watch City, more than they have to watch the rags. Even more if Com Shield against Chelsea hadn't been at Villa Park.