Liverpool thread 2018/19

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Copied is a long, detailed and pseudo-intellectual post on RAWK explaining why Heysel was not their fault. That club really is disgusting. Just fucking say sorry.

It beggars belief that it was ever deemed acceptable to hold a European Cup Final, or any major sporting event, in a stadium completely unfit for purpose. Elements from both fanbases were at fault for what unfolded, but pretty much everything seems to have failed on the day. Clearly, planning and preparation were woefully inadequate too. The perfect storm in many respects. Anything that could go wrong, did go wrong. It's easy and extremely lazy to simply blame Liverpool fans for what happened without actually looking deeper. Those who died, and all those who grieve for them to this day, deserve the truth. A minority of fans of both clubs are clearly culpable, but so too are those who were tasked with organising this event in a safe ground which was fit for purpose. Proper, considered preparation should have been in place. As it happened, all concerns about the stadium were wilfully ignored and all the numerous factors that contributed to this horrible disaster were left unaddressed, to run their course. With hindsight, the outcome was almost inevitable.

We all know how it goes when disasters happen. Organisations close ranks. People look for the convenient scapegoat. Fingers get pointed. Heads get placed in the sand. Blind eyes get turned. Of course, no one even tries to deny that a certain section of Liverpool fans directly contributed to the eventual outcome. But, so did the appalling actions of some of Juventus' own fans, the inactions of the police, the criminal neglect of those who 'organised' the Final, those who chose a crumbling relic of a ground to host the match despite fears being voiced about it and those who dismissed all concerns out of hand.

Pointing the finger at just one element/factor helps those who also contributed to squirm off the hook and off into the night. I helps those people to remain unaccountable for their neglect. It also betrays and disrespects every single victim of the dreadful tragedy that was Heysel. It betrays their grieving families too.
In Rome 1984 we saw where things might be heading. In Brussels 1985 we saw what happens when warnings and concerns are wilfully dismissed and people tasked with looking after the safety of thousands of people basically go to sleep on the job. We also saw how those in power wash their hands of responsibility, pick a handy scapegoat then absolve themselves of all responsibility. That, in itself, was also a warning sign of things to come after Hillsborough 1989.

Things of this magnitude don't just simply happen out of nowhere. They happen due to a catalogue of contributing factors all coming together at once. They come from neglect, and the ignoring of warnings and concerns. They come from people not taking responsibility. People not doing their jobs adequately. The actions of some fans from both clubs were the straw that broke the camels back, but make no mistake, there were many, many factors in place that allowed that eventuality to take place.
 
Hello Liverpool lurkers. Not many of you post here currently. Are you all at a vigil? With Virgil?

I lnow you lost four games in the quest for the Champions league, but you HAVE somehow scraped through to the 'Champions' ,(hahaha) League final.

You must be confident, eh?

After all, Klopp has appeared in SEVEN FINALS now, with his teams.

Oh, hang on a moment!!!!

Someone told me that Klopp has lost SIX of them.

Hmmmm......
 
Copied is a long, detailed and pseudo-intellectual post on RAWK explaining why Heysel was not their fault. That club really is disgusting. Just fucking say sorry.

It beggars belief that it was ever deemed acceptable to hold a European Cup Final, or any major sporting event, in a stadium completely unfit for purpose. Elements from both fanbases were at fault for what unfolded, but pretty much everything seems to have failed on the day. Clearly, planning and preparation were woefully inadequate too. The perfect storm in many respects. Anything that could go wrong, did go wrong. It's easy and extremely lazy to simply blame Liverpool fans for what happened without actually looking deeper. Those who died, and all those who grieve for them to this day, deserve the truth. A minority of fans of both clubs are clearly culpable, but so too are those who were tasked with organising this event in a safe ground which was fit for purpose. Proper, considered preparation should have been in place. As it happened, all concerns about the stadium were wilfully ignored and all the numerous factors that contributed to this horrible disaster were left unaddressed, to run their course. With hindsight, the outcome was almost inevitable.

We all know how it goes when disasters happen. Organisations close ranks. People look for the convenient scapegoat. Fingers get pointed. Heads get placed in the sand. Blind eyes get turned. Of course, no one even tries to deny that a certain section of Liverpool fans directly contributed to the eventual outcome. But, so did the appalling actions of some of Juventus' own fans, the inactions of the police, the criminal neglect of those who 'organised' the Final, those who chose a crumbling relic of a ground to host the match despite fears being voiced about it and those who dismissed all concerns out of hand.

Pointing the finger at just one element/factor helps those who also contributed to squirm off the hook and off into the night. I helps those people to remain unaccountable for their neglect. It also betrays and disrespects every single victim of the dreadful tragedy that was Heysel. It betrays their grieving families too.
In Rome 1984 we saw where things might be heading. In Brussels 1985 we saw what happens when warnings and concerns are wilfully dismissed and people tasked with looking after the safety of thousands of people basically go to sleep on the job. We also saw how those in power wash their hands of responsibility, pick a handy scapegoat then absolve themselves of all responsibility. That, in itself, was also a warning sign of things to come after Hillsborough 1989.

Things of this magnitude don't just simply happen out of nowhere. They happen due to a catalogue of contributing factors all coming together at once. They come from neglect, and the ignoring of warnings and concerns. They come from people not taking responsibility. People not doing their jobs adequately. The actions of some fans from both clubs were the straw that broke the camels back, but make no mistake, there were many, many factors in place that allowed that eventuality to take place.
It's amazing how many other clubs have played games in shitty stadiums, with indifferent police and aggressive opposition fans and not had the day end with tragedy. Liverpool clearly are just incredibly unlucky
 
It's the culture, Khaldoon is deferential to the more powerful Sheikh Mansour, that is their dynamic. Clearly Khaldoon is trusted and well liked and there are plenty of instances where there is laughter and conviviality, but the dynamic is always there. Pep has a different culture and a different dynamic with the Sheikh.

Pep works for Sheikh Mansour that's true, but on his own terms. We wanted Pep, waited for him, hired his two buddies and built an infrastructure just for him and one day he'll walk whether the Sheikh likes it or not, that's his power.

You are Mark Hughes and I claim my £5
 
I once had a conversation re heysel as such with a kopite and when i said how come there were never any injuries at fulham where they had a neutral section for decades? He said it was because there were no italians throwing missiles at the fulham neutral area.
There were other factors re heysel as there were re Hillsborough but fact remains had they not charged at the juve fans en mass there would have been no deaths.
When you have a situation where your club chairman blames it on chelsea fans the denial is strong.
Even now they are buying jarg tickets for Madrid for £30 knowing they may get them past any initial security checks.
 
Copied is a long, detailed and pseudo-intellectual post on RAWK explaining why Heysel was not their fault. That club really is disgusting. Just fucking say sorry.

It beggars belief that it was ever deemed acceptable to hold a European Cup Final, or any major sporting event, in a stadium completely unfit for purpose. Elements from both fanbases were at fault for what unfolded, but pretty much everything seems to have failed on the day. Clearly, planning and preparation were woefully inadequate too. The perfect storm in many respects. Anything that could go wrong, did go wrong. It's easy and extremely lazy to simply blame Liverpool fans for what happened without actually looking deeper. Those who died, and all those who grieve for them to this day, deserve the truth. A minority of fans of both clubs are clearly culpable, but so too are those who were tasked with organising this event in a safe ground which was fit for purpose. Proper, considered preparation should have been in place. As it happened, all concerns about the stadium were wilfully ignored and all the numerous factors that contributed to this horrible disaster were left unaddressed, to run their course. With hindsight, the outcome was almost inevitable.

We all know how it goes when disasters happen. Organisations close ranks. People look for the convenient scapegoat. Fingers get pointed. Heads get placed in the sand. Blind eyes get turned. Of course, no one even tries to deny that a certain section of Liverpool fans directly contributed to the eventual outcome. But, so did the appalling actions of some of Juventus' own fans, the inactions of the police, the criminal neglect of those who 'organised' the Final, those who chose a crumbling relic of a ground to host the match despite fears being voiced about it and those who dismissed all concerns out of hand.

Pointing the finger at just one element/factor helps those who also contributed to squirm off the hook and off into the night. I helps those people to remain unaccountable for their neglect. It also betrays and disrespects every single victim of the dreadful tragedy that was Heysel. It betrays their grieving families too.
In Rome 1984 we saw where things might be heading. In Brussels 1985 we saw what happens when warnings and concerns are wilfully dismissed and people tasked with looking after the safety of thousands of people basically go to sleep on the job. We also saw how those in power wash their hands of responsibility, pick a handy scapegoat then absolve themselves of all responsibility. That, in itself, was also a warning sign of things to come after Hillsborough 1989.

Things of this magnitude don't just simply happen out of nowhere. They happen due to a catalogue of contributing factors all coming together at once. They come from neglect, and the ignoring of warnings and concerns. They come from people not taking responsibility. People not doing their jobs adequately. The actions of some fans from both clubs were the straw that broke the camels back, but make no mistake, there were many, many factors in place that allowed that eventuality to take place.
What a grade A c@nt
 
Crazy looking back.
Since you insist, I'll repeat what I posted a few years ago.

On that night, we were on holiday in Cala Millor, Majorca. My wife stayed in the apartment to put our daughter to bed, and I went to watch the match in the Liverpool Bar down the road. I got there about half an hour before the KO, to be told that there'd been "some trouble" and some Juventus fans had been killed, but the game would still be played!
I'd had enough by half time, and went back to the apartment, telling my wife what had happened.

Fast forward about 30 years, and I went back to the bar, it was still there. I mentioned to the girls behind the bar (both scousers) about my last visit there, and they both said that they had never heard about Heysel! I won't go back there again.

Talk about airbrushing from history.
 
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